Backpackers Beware - Page 6

slakjaw · 03-20-2009, 06:50 PM

Thats true..... good point.

m21sniper · 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

You're not going to go in the water anyway, so why should you care?

I might have to jump in the ocean to save a retarded kid or something some day. Should that come to pass, the less sharks the better.

m21sniper · 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

I suggest you learn before speaking. Just because I work in France does not mean I am any less knowledgeable or less of an American. Or did not serve.

You served? In the military? The US military? What was your branch and MOS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

No. And hunting for meat or need is one thing. Hunting for sport—particularly an animal as majestic and scarce as a large Grizzly—is to my way of thinking obscene.

But I realize I won't persuade you of this, and that the gun culture trumps all in your neck of the woods.

As I mentioned in the wildlife photography thread, I recently met a man who lives with these animals for weeks at a time and photographs them. I attach a couple of pics below.

If you ask me who is the more evolved human being—those two hunters in the photograph who kill these animals for sport, or the person who took the photos below—well, I think you know what my answer will be.

We're all on this planet together. And everything is connected.

Do a google on "Grizzly man."

"'I will protect these bears with my last breath', Treadwell says. After he and Amie become the first and only people to be killed by bears in the park, the bear that is guilty is shot dead. His watch, still ticking, is found on his severed arm."

Yeah, real effin smart. The idiot even managed to get his girlfriend EATEN alive too. I think anyone that works unarmed that close to wild animals is a total moron.

There is audio on the internet of them both being eaten alive. Perhaps the bambiists among us should check it out. It might give you a new perspective on these "Grand and majestic animals."

They're only grand and majestic until they take that first bite out of your flesh...

That Sigfried fellow worked with Tigers for a long time too. I heard he had a little mishap...and i heard he don't look and talk so good no mo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Well you need a lesson on ballistics, thats for sure. Ask Jeff if you don't believe me.
Bullet placement can overcome most bullet constuction problems. Stupidity cannot.

No one with any sense would choose a .30-06 to hunt grizzly bears. Way underpowered for that task, as i think any professional hunter would agree.

Check this story relating a black bear hunt, which is tiny compared to a grizzly:

"Several years ago my daughter shot a big black bear at approx. 150yds with a .280 Remington. This big bear received another 280 slug and 2 shots from my .300 Ultra mag before the bear was stopped as it closed the distance to us."

http://www.bearbums.net/2008/08/14/bear-hunting-caliber-recommendation/

IOW, it was charging them and took 4 shots to down. And that's just a "harmless" black bear.

Yeah....no sport at all.

A .300 ultra mag is vastly more powerful than a .30-06, by the way.

------------------------

Sumatra: Tiger eats illegal loggers
A Sumatran tiger mauled two illegal loggers to death in western
Indonesia, bringing to five the number of people killed by the
critically endangered cats in less than a month, a conservationist
said today.

http://forestpolicy.posterous.com/sumatra-tiger-eats-illegal-log#ixzz0ALotMcST

Nope, big game animals definitely aren't dangerous at all...

Sharks, cats, bears, apes, wolves, whatever- wild animals may look cute, but even 'domesticated' ones who 'love you' WILL F you up bad for seemingly no reason at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishman7

Humans forget that humans are animals also.

And animals kill for food and sport too.

Anyone ever seen a cat toy with a mouse until it was dead then just wander off and leave it there? I have, many times.

m21sniper · 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbocarrera

Humans take the biggest buck, or the giant bear - sometimes for meat but sometimes for something to mount - almost never the weak or the old, as in nature. This is not survival of the fittest or natural selection. Apex animals are the strength of the species, do most of the breeding and we are seriously messing up some important parts of the food chain. We have to respect peoples rights to hunt, I have two uncles who live in the bush and trap/hunt their entire diet, but people that lay waste to the pinnacle of a species and just take a souvenir really need to be educated. It's a huge industry in Canada and it needs to stop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

-You may be thinking of wolves or African Wild Dogs running down gazelles -- there, the old, the young, and sick are removed from the herd differentially. Genetically defective animals should be removed also. However the relation between that and mean population fitness has never been established.

Incorrect, you really should read some US fish and wildlife studies. Game management and monitored/adjusted hunting (all funded by hunters license fees) is the best thing we can do for these herds.

When any one species is overhunted the hunting permits issued are reduced until the herd is again oversized, then restrictions are lifted. Meanwhile, the BILLIONS of dollars generated from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses is used directly on wildlife preservation issues.

Hunting is a great benefit to our wildlife populations, observe:

NRA-ILA Hunting Facts

"Often camouflaged from the public eye, the efforts of hunters as conservationists over the last century have restored America's game populations and enhanced the habitat of numerous wildlife species. No other group has come close to sportsmen in contributing the volunteer hours and funding necessary to make such an impact on wildlife conservation.

President Theodore Roosevelt, arguably America's first prominent conservationist, knew first hand of the advantages regulated hunting and conservation bring to wildlife. During the late 1800s, Roosevelt saw animal numbers deteriorate because of over-hunting driven by unregulated meat and fur markets. As President, Roosevelt began creating programs aimed at restoring game populations to healthy levels.

Hunting is an integral part of the fabric of our economy and cultural heritage and it is also an important wildlife management tool. Everyone benefits from the excise taxes that hunters voluntarily pay on guns, ammunition and outdoor equipment. Since 1937, hunters have contributed over 4 billion dollars through the Pittman-Robertson Act for the benefit of all wildlife species. These dollars have been used to purchase millions of acres of public lands.

Through over 10,000 clubs and organizations such as NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Safari Club International, National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Quail Unlimited, sportsmen contribute an additional $300 million each year to wildlife conservation activities.

Hunters and fishermen fund nearly 75% of the annual income for all 50 state conservation agencies. Through license fees and excise taxes on arms and gear, sportsmen contribute $200 million per year for wildlife conservation. (U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service)

Through legislative programs designed to channel funds back into the conservation process, hunters have restored populations of deer, elk, antelope, turkeys and ducks to record numbers.

The numbers on that chart absolutely speak for themselves. The benefits of hunting are immense.

http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=124

If hunting and the monies generated by hunting went away all 50 state conservation agencies would go bankrupt, and our national herds would plummet.

Aurel · Aurel's Garage

If you are not afraid to see a man die to the claws of a grizzly bear, watch this...

Danimal16 · 03-20-2009, 07:57 PM

I am cautious of Wikipedia but here is some interesting stats. the September 26 1976 attack is the one that Charlie help hunt down. Evidently this bear was going into cabins through the walls to get to the goodies inside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade

Danimal16 · 03-20-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurel

If you are not afraid to see a man die to the claws of a grizzly bear, watch this...

Aurel,
You need to be more discrete with that type of gore!!! LMAO

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

Sniper - I read actual scientific research reports.

2nd - go back and read your own original post - it is not at all about increases in popn size.

m21sniper · 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danimal16

I am cautious of Wikipedia but here is some interesting stats. the September 26 1976 attack is the one that Charlie help hunt down. Evidently this bear was going into cabins through the walls to get to the goodies inside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade

Wow, i counted 27 fatal attacks just since the year 2000......including a 5 month old baby!

Ester Schwimmer, 5 months, female August 2002 Black Bear.

Bear grabs and kills 5 month old infant from stroller on the porch of home in Fallsburg, New York.[19]

Majestic huh? Symbiotic relationship huh?

Imagine if that was your kid eaten on your front porch...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

Sniper - I read actual scientific research reports.

Oh jeez, here we go with this crap again.

I just offered black and white NRA provided facts because i am not interested enough to hunt down detailed studies at this juncture in time. (i have read quite a lot about hunter conservation issues in the past however) Brief summaries are fine for the purposes of this thread.

If you have better statistics, post them.

BRPORSCHE · 03-20-2009, 08:01 PM

wow. I have been backpacking close to there on mt. robson. And the only thing I was armed with were my fists.

CRH911S · 03-20-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

...Apparently it wasn't alert enough to smell the man waiting to blast his heart out, just as the jogger is not alert enough to detect the bear laying in wait.

No doubt stated by an idiot with absolutely no knowledge of bears. Perhaps next time the stupid jogger, or as in the case in Anchorage last summer a stupid mountain biker, might want to consider someplace other than a salmon producing stream in the late evening sun.
A bear that size is near the end of his life cycle and a threat to no one. Is a frontal of the skull available?

CRH911S · 03-20-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Ester Schwimmer, 5 months, female August 2002 Black Bear.

So in your opinion all bears are the same?

Aurel · Aurel's Garage

Guys, the grizzly bears are nice and all, but how about bigfoot? He is suffering right now:

m21sniper · 08:34 PM

http://www.cougarinfo.org/beier.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America_by_d ecade

Fatal cougar attacks in US and canada.

Some statistics:

Victims
Thirty-seven of 58 victims (64%) were children. Most eaten were 5-9 year olds, accounting for 19 fatal attacks.

Yep. These animals are so cute and lovable. Until they start eating your kids.

Fifteen of 54 victims (28%) were attacked close to a house or cabin, or just outside a motor home within a developed recreational area.

Yep, and they mind their own business and keep to themselves too....

The 3 most intrusive cases involved a cougar crashing through the window of an isolated cabin to attack a telephone lineman (Table 1: Kelsey Bay, B.C., 1951), a cougar who attacked a 2-year-old boy in the garage of his home in a village of 250 persons (Table 1: Lewis, Colo., 1970), and a cougar attack on a 6-year-old boy in a residential area (Table 1: Hinton, Alta., 1962). Not included in these 15 cases were 2 attacks on persons in tents or sleeping bags

Anyone that implies large game animals are defenseless vs hunters/man is a total moron. However, our children very much are defenseless vs these savage beasts of the wild- and unless armed, SO ARE YOU.

Especially considering:

Most victims (24 of 32 for which data exist, excluding 2 who were injured after they came to the assistance of a companion) did not see the cougar before being clawed or bitten; thus, no preventive action was taken.

If you're taking your kids or woman hiking or camping in a area known to have bears, wolves, or big cats, do them a favor, arm yourself suitably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRH911S

So in your opinion all bears are the same?

They all have 4 legs, fur and teeth don't they?

Large game animals are EXTREMELY dangerous. All of them. Yes- they are all the same. They are all predators at the top of their food chain and anything they lay their eyes on, they can eat at a whim....including YOU.

One of the fatal bear attacks in Danimal's link, the attacking bear weighed a mere 112 pounds.
A grizzly is what- 20 times that mass?

In the Army we were taught to never, ever, ever mess with the wildlife. Ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRPORSCHE

wow. I have been backpacking close to there on mt. robson. And the only thing I was armed with were my fists.

Time to get a hunters sportsman's permit. That will let you pack a sidearm of appropriate power legally. Here in Pa they give them out like candy.

§ 33.118. Pennsylvania sportsman’s firearm permit.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter33/s33.118.html

slakjaw · 03-20-2009, 08:20 PM

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

"Snatch squach"

FastCarFan · FastCarFan's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

"jogger better be in shape.."

a bear can run 40 mph -- over broken ground

no human can go that fast - even on cinders

I take Bill's comment to mean there is no real reason to kill a bear that is minding its own business -- except for a trophy.

And anyone who thinks killing one (non-problem) bear will reduce attacks on humans needs to take a basic biology course. Bears reproduce, right?

A man & his buddy were gettting ready to take a hike in the woods. The man saw his friend putting on sneakers. He said, "Why are you putting on sneakers?" The friend replied, "In case we come across a bear". The man said, "You can't outrun a bear!". The friend said, "I don't have to outrun the bear -- I just need to outrun you!"