State Budget Cutbacks

[peppy]

Update:

The travel ban was lifted the next day.

[strupgolf]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

Brilliant. lay off police and fire and then pay Overtime ($74 an hour in California) to maintain minimum staffing levels.

We all get it that you hate police and fire. And the pensions that we dont deserve.

I work so much at my "second job", I can't seem to find the time to clean my 4 car garage in the McMansion that I just built. Maybe you can come over and lend me a hand.

Sorry guy, I don't hate police and firemen, but EVERONE should have to sacrifice something in this mess we are in. The way it is in most cities is you CAN NOT TOUCH these unions, which is wrong; why should they be off limits. And you work so much at your "second job" only because you CAN. I know policemen and firemen who work such low hours each month that they can work other jobs and get by just fine. I understand there are cities where this work is stressful, but lets call it by what it is

[Zeke]

I didn't get his post either.

[strupgolf]

It shows a cop or firemans garage, with a Porsche and a Ferrari. Looks normal to me. Yea, thats a 4 car garage.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by strupgolf

Sorry guy, I don't hate police and firemen

If you don't hate us, then you certainly have the worst case of envy that i have ever seen.

, but EVERONE should have to sacrifice something in this mess we are in.

Why should I have to sacrifice anything? As far as the "public pension crisis", is it my fault that liberal city managers CHOSE not to continue to fund the pensions during the good stock market years, instead choosing to expand local social welfare programs??? Had the cities continued to invest that 6% of employees pay during all of those years when the stock market was expanding, then they wouldnt be in an underfunded situation now.

Instead, when the public pension systems told the cities that the pension funds were fully funded and gave the cities the option of continuing to pay into the funds or not paying into the funds, the stupid cities chose to blow the money on "other" projects. The smart cities continued to fund their employees retirement systems, even when they had the option not to.

For example, the City of Torrance just ratified a contract with their police officers. This year they will get 6.5%, next year 3.5% and the year after that another 3.5%. Thats 13.5% over 3 years. Further, the City will pay $1,077 monthly toward health insurance in year one, $1,164 monthly in year 2 and $1,257 monthly in year 3. (The city also pays for dental and vision). Interestingly, the police officers decided to cut the first year pay raise from 6.5% to 6% and instead divert that extra 1/2% to a health insurance retirement fund for officers who are already retired. Again, another instance of the membership giving up something now (1/2%) so that they will get something later (better health insurance when they retire). Torrance was smart. They fully funded the retirement system, even when they were not required by law to do so.

The way it is in most cities is you CAN NOT TOUCH these unions, which is wrong; why should they be off limits.

police and fire unions traded pay raises for increased pension benefits. Cities/counties didnt just "give" it away. I worked at a poor city for 12 years, and one of our contracts was for 5% over 3 years. (2%,2%, and 1% the last year). As a matter of fact, I left that city in 2002 and the police officers worked with no contract (NO RAISES) until 2006. Four years with no raise. And this at a time when real estate agents with no training and experience were making literally hundreds of thousands of dollars per year...

And you work so much at your "second job" only because you CAN. I know policemen and firemen who work such low hours each month that they can work other jobs and get by just fine. I understand there are cities where this work is stressful, but lets call it by what it is

I would bet that I work as many hours at my cop job, per month, as you do at whatever vital job it is that you work at. (I would love to know what you do for a living)

For the record, I dont have a "second job." and nobody that i work with has a "second job" either.

My steady police job has enabled me to make a couple bucks in real estate over the 19 years that I have been a cop. Yipee. I scrimped and saved and invested and SOLD, and then scrimped and saved and invested and SOLD some more and shazam, now i have a pretty decent passive income stream. So what.

Your basic premise is that all cops are on easy street. That is just not the case. California is a tough town. If I hadnt invested and TAKEN RISK during my earlier years, I wouldnt have $hit now. It is very expensive here.

As far as the photo goes, I just thought that it was pretty ironic that you are accusing cops and firemen of being on a financial "easy street" and of having so much extra time on their hands that they can have "second jobs". And here I am 5 weeks after moving in and I still can't find the time to get my garage in order...

and one last thing. Five of my buddies have been killed doing this job since I started in 1991. One at LAPD, One at Compton PD, Two at Long Beach PD and One at the Orange County Sheriffs Department. Two others have been shot in the head and miraculously lived. One of them walks with a cane and the other suffers from constant headaches and an intense ringing inside his head 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

You want to talk about Stress? I'm 44 years old with a young family and I never know who is going to be behind "door #3..." I can tell you that I have seen one of those doors open and come face to face with the business end of an AR15. Kill or be killed. Night after night. Stress. Yes, that is stress.

I knew that I was going to be a policeman since I was 3 years old. I don't ask for sympathy from anybody. If the job wasn't dangerous, then I wouldn't be interested in it. I have worked all 19 years in patrol, other than a short stint as a violent crimes detective.

Could I have made a better living working full time in finance or investment real estate? Of course I could have. But still, I wouldn't change a thing.

[Zeke]

Easy, man. You're one reason I don't ever want anything to do with cops. Talk about a tight wire. We need cops to be able to handle the circumstances of their jobs which includes criticism on Internet forums. If you take that anger with you every day to the job, you're a liability.

Not that I don't appreciate what you do.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I have a good state budget story. My buddy is a state auditor. When the economy started going south, his office was tasked with identifying potential programs to cut. They sent out a survey to each govt office, asking them to divide their programs into "gotta have it", "could do without", and "won't miss it" (paraphrasing here). I think the budget distribution was 60%, 20%, and 20% respectively.

So they complete the rather lengthy study and present the results to the legislature. Bear in mind that each govt agency identified 20% of their programs as being a total waste of money. The legislature essentially wadded up the proposal and threw it in the trash. For each wasteful program, there was a rep hell bent on keeping it alive, likely for his own personal gain. That pretty much sums up our current political system.

[sammyg2]

In California, the firefighters nurses and teachers are a serious problem. Their political actions have altered policy, power, control. They are also at the spearhead of what is killing this state. The police get involved too but they have more restraint. I don't really have a problem with law enforcement. The rest? replace em all with non-union employees.

If I were in control (and you're glad I'm not) it would be illegal for EVERYONE who works in a so called "public service" job to belong to a union or donate a single freaking penny to a PAC.

If they worried as much about doing their jobs as they do lining their pockets and threatening to go on strike and trying to get less work and less hours, we wouldn't have the budget problems we have.
They are supposed to be serving the public, not holding it ransom and extorting every penny they can get.
Teachers in Ca. are the worst.
6 hours a day, 7 1/2 months out of the year, and the rest of their time is spent on the picket line pretending to be concerned for the students when the only thing on their mind is getting less work, less hours, and more money to do less.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Unions? A problem? Never!

[Zeke]

Sam, someone once told me you get what you pay for. Teachers are bad enough as it is. And, you are wrong about teachers' hours. I have 2 in the family. They work a lot at home.

As for cops, well it's not a glamorous job. It might be a job with good pay for those that can handle it and don't want to go to college. I know, some do. I'm not sue what we would do with any less qualified than what we have now. Officers, don't read that wrong.

Firefighters might be a different story. A local citizen wrote to the local newspaper op-ed section recently and suggested we in LB remove one staff from each engine (there are currently 4 per engine) and replace them with volunteers. There are plenty of those trying to get on a dept somewhere. I like the idea and I think it's worth looking into.

The obstacle would be the union. The whole LB fire dept is wrong as it works today. 90% of their calls do NOT involve a fire, yet all four of these cats roll out on each affair, a lot of the times just accompanying the paramedics. They do nothing at the scene.

I would fix that.

[Tim Walsh]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Teachers in Ca. are the worst.
6 hours a day, 7 1/2 months out of the year, and the rest of their time is spent on the picket line pretending to be concerned for the students when the only thing on their mind is getting less work, less hours, and more money to do less.

Wow! my wife is working for the wrong state! 9 hour days are average 10 months out of the year. The other 2? about 6 hours a day.. all for peanuts.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by milt

As for cops, well it's not a glamorous job. It might be a job with good pay for those that can handle it and don't want to go to college.

Most departments won't consider anyone without some form of bachelor's degree. A friend of mine just went through the process.

Originally Posted by Tim Walsh

Wow! my wife is working for the wrong state! 9 hour days are average 10 months out of the year. The other 2? about 6 hours a day.. all for peanuts.

Your wife must be one of the few that cares? What is she doing over the summer? Most teachers don't set foot in a school unless they're teaching summer school for extra money. As for the peanuts, it's hard for an experienced teacher around here to make under $40k, and most make more. Get an advanced degree and it's $50k+.

My wife's aunt and uncle are both teachers in a small central KS town (i.e. dirt cheap). They make over $100k per year combined and always complain about their low pay. Must be a teacher thing.

[m21sniper]

As i stood in line at the grocery store earlier today and waited for 20 minutes for an utterly illiterate african immigrant woman to attempt to pay for her groceries with FOOD STAMPS, it was painfully obvious to me just how totally screwed up this country is.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Most departments won't consider anyone without some form of bachelor's degree. A friend of mine just went through the process.

In philly you need no more than a HS diploma or GED.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

Brilliant. lay off police and fire and then pay Overtime ($74 an hour in California) to maintain minimum staffing levels.

We all get it that you hate police and fire. And the pensions that we dont deserve.

I work so much at my "second job", I can't seem to find the time to clean my 4 car garage in the McMansion that I just built. Maybe you can come over and lend me a hand.

Wow, a porsche and a ferrrari in a patrolman's 4 car garage.

Nah, nothing seriously wrong with that picture. Get investigated by IA very often? If a cop around here had a ferarri he'd have IA up his butt all day long.

Not implying anything, but man talk about suspicious.

Originally Posted by milt

Easy, man. You're one reason I don't ever want anything to do with cops. Talk about a tight wire. We need cops to be able to handle the circumstances of their jobs which includes criticism on Internet forums. If you take that anger with you every day to the job, you're a liability.

About the only job i would support robots taking over for people is cops.

At least they'd be consistent and a chunk of them wouldn't be on the take.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Tim Walsh

Wow! my wife is working for the wrong state! 9 hour days are average 10 months out of the year. The other 2? about 6 hours a day.. all for peanuts.

Hmmm, here in Philly they get 3 months off every year. I've dated a few teachers.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

In philly you need no more than a HS diploma or GED.

It might be based on competition. Technically I don't think a bachelors is required, but you'll be at the bottom of the stack. I'm sure it's more enticing to be a cop in KS than Philly, less crackheads shooting at you.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hmmm, here in Philly they get 3 months off every year. I've dated a few teachers.

The wife's aunt and uncle in question are taking a month vacation this summer. Pretty sure they won't be working. Yep, being a teacher is rough.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Silverwhaletail,

We have something in common - my daughter has that same tricycle as the one in the center of the pic!

PS, my garage looks a lot like yours even after 6 years, still haven't unpacked my boxes.
Thats one of the problems with a 1,500 sf garage, you have too much room to store crap you don't really need.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Wow, a porsche and a ferrrari in a patrolman's 4 car garage.

Nah, nothing seriously wrong with that picture. Get investigated by IA very often? If a cop around here had a ferarri he'd have IA up his butt all day long.

Not implying anything, but man talk about suspicious.


About the only job i would support robots taking over for people is cops.

At least they'd be consistent and a chunk of them wouldn't be on the take.

Sniper, I was born and raised in Ohio where cops make 30 to 50k... I knew that cops made more in CA so I got a job in CA, packed up my 914 2.0 and headed west.

Now my base pay is 94k. I make another 5k or 10k in compulsory OT (court, being held over because of minimum staffing, investigations, late arrests etc.). But to be honest with you, I figured out a long time ago that I could not be content with $100k a year. So I saved my money and bought some houses and then later, when the banks determined that I was a seasoned investor, I bought apartment buildings. Believe it or not, my buddies at work laughed at me because I complained about my "renters" all of the time. Until last year I drove 15 year old Nissan PU trucks so that I wouldn't get hassled when seeing to my properties. Now I drive a 2008 Nissan Titan Crew Cab that I got brand new for $17,700 when gas was $5 a gallon. Who's laughing now?

As a successful Repossession Business Owner, you obviously were unwilling to accept 40 or 50k as a journeyman Repo-Man. So instead of taking the easy way out, blaming "The Man" (the government) for your station in life, you worked like a dog and made yourself successful. I applaud you for your effort.

It bums me out that you think that I shouldn't have a few nice material possessions just because I chose a line of work that you think is beneath you...a lowly patrolman...

And one last thing. My dad worked for Stearns & Foster Mattress Company for 40 years in shipping and receiving. Never made more than $8 an hour. Before I was born, he drove a cab on the weekends and paid off the house that they lived in in 3.5 years. All 4 of his kids went on to college and have good lives now. He taught me that high income means nothing if not used to produce high net worth. The good ole puritan work ethic.

I joined the US Army Military Police six days after I turned 18 and proudly served under President Ronald Reagan. I "invested" $2,700 in the Army Ultra-Veap College Fund Program in which $100 was deducted from my pay each month (i only made $544 a month as a private).

When I got out, I received $744.44 per month while enrolled full time in college. I worked part-time and graduated with ZERO college loan debt.

Sniper, think what you want about cops, but keep in mind that most people get where they are as a result of their personal diligence. or lack thereof.

[m21sniper]

I do not begrudge you anything that you have worked for amigo.

I'm just saying, if the news around here caught wind of a cop with a ferrari and a porsche and a "mcmansion" (your words) they would have a field day with it.

When it came out a few years ago that some toll booth collectors that were working 80-90 hours a week were making six figures the local newspapers launched a veritable witch hunt over it. I believe some people even lost their jobs over it. God forbid toll collectors work 14 hour shifts to get ahead in life.... :-/

At the very least you'd be villified as a poster child for "overpaid government workers." I have no doubt they'd pressure IAD into climbing up your ass with a microscope and blah, blah, blah.

I really do not like reporters.

You had really good timing with the real estate, this past decade was like a roman orgy of real estate sales. So again, i say good for you man.

As for cops in general, well, they're people. And IMO most people are *******s. So by default most cops are *******s in one way or another. The difference between the power of ******* cops and ******* "regular people" is obvious to all, i am sure.

I couldn't do your job. I would be a terrible cop. My dad really pushed me to go that route, but i knew even back then that i could just not remain impartial and fair with people i percieved to be scumbags.

I think the vast majority of cops struggle with this, actually. And another thing that seems to manifest itself is that all that contact with scumbags makes cops extremely cynical and suspicious of everyone. Which is not good.

Robots would make great cops. They'd be 100% consistent and completely fair.