black bear advice

[m21sniper]

I tend to agree with Jeff on this one. It's like comparing a hardened felon mugger to a law abiding white collar banker.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

True enough - they won't play. A black bear even half the size of that dog would kill it so fast you would never know what hit it. Granted, at first it might run, depending upon the individual, but when push comes to shove - the only reason the black bear will go somewhere else is because he's done eating this one.

Animals that "do it for a living" are far, far more formidable than domestic animals, no matter how big and impressive they look to us. I used to go out with a coworker who had a cousin that ran dogs for black bear and cougar (when it was still legal to do so up here). He lost at least a dog or two, sometimes more, every season to bears and cats. And these were "seasoned professionals", working in a pack. Blue Ticks, Plots, and stuff like that - bred for the purpose. Not "pets" by any stretch of the imagination. It wouldn't even be a contest with a big ol' clumsy pet dog.

Uh huh. despite the fact that the breed was developed to protect livestock from stuff like bears.
Besides, the bear would simply go away. It would not take a chance fighting something that big unless it was cornered.

The Mastiff is descended from the ancient dogs brought to Britain by ancient traders and is recognized as the oldest British breed. It has been speculated that the Mastiff might have been brought to Britain by the Phoenicians in the 6th century BC.[9] It was used in the blood sports of bear-baiting, bull-baiting, dog fighting, and lion-baiting.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

"Did someone say bear?"

Aren't you the one who thinks .22mag is a reasonable bear round? Bring the pump gun loaded with ounce and a quarter slugs. And get a haircut.

[enzo1]

Karelian Bear Dog

[Joeaksa]

A .375 H & H is a good start. A .30 30 is next....

Have you called the local wildlife folks? Get the bears moved before they become a hazzard to the local and have to be shot?

[s_morrison57]

We used to be able to take a rifle or shot gun to work for the bears but not anymore cause now we have pepper spray. it was always buckshot,slug, buckshot, slug, slug, then out run your partner.
Best thing I heard of was bear spray can covered in bacon fat, when they bite into that they leave fast and seldom come backthe whole can empty's into there mouth, nose and eyes

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Uh huh. despite the fact that the breed was developed to protect livestock from stuff like bears.

The Mastiff is descended from the ancient dogs brought to Britain by ancient traders and is recognized as the oldest British breed. It has been speculated that the Mastiff might have been brought to Britain by the Phoenicians in the 6th century BC.[9] It was used in the blood sports of bear-baiting, bull-baiting, dog fighting, and lion-baiting.

I think you missunderstand, Sammy. "Baiting" and "fighting" as "blood sport" are far, far different from "protecting from". And yes, a pack of Bull Mastiffs would do a fine job of protecting a flock from predators. I won't dispute that. You have to realize, however, that a good number get killed in this duty, even operating as a pack. The dog fighting you mention was almost certainly one-on-one but, just as certainly, the bear and lion baiting was done with packs, just as it is today. And I'm sure they lost a lot of dogs.

I have been "up close and personal" with dogs that have a bear at bay. I'm not so sure I have ever been so scared in my life. Any attempt at an accurate description of just how vicious they are, and how quickly they can move, would come off as a b.s. exageration to someone who has never seen it. In the few instances I saw it, every dog (out of 6-8) got hurt, some far worse than others, before we could shoot the bear (or get them away from a too small bear). Half of them requiring some serious stitches. I never saw one killed, but my God could that happen quickly. One on one, where the bear could focus his attention on just one dog? No contest. No way. Over in the blink of an eye. The only way the pack makes it is by playing an expert, well choreographed game of tag-team. Even then they get tagged around the edges.

[aigel]

The only way to solve this is with a depredation permit. If you don't kill it, invite a friend who can and will. With the damages you have (document them), a depredation permit should be no problem to receive from your fish and game department. If they don't allow you to do the job, have them send you a depredation officer to take care of it.

This bear is a "problem bear" now that he got the taste of an easy meal. He will not change. Why go back to the woods where the food is a lot harder to get? These bears can get aggressive if you get between them and the food.

Dogs will only slightly annoy a bear. I doubt they will change a bear's behavior. The only dogs I would use are a pack of hounds trained to pursue and tree the problem bear after he came by the night before. This way you can easily dispatch it.

Cheers,

George

[s_morrison57]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

"Did someone say bear?"

When are we getting more pics of the fire house?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

Aren't you the one who thinks .22mag is a reasonable bear round?

Ummm, no?

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

Bring the pump gun loaded with ounce and a quarter slugs.

Don't own a pump, so how about i bring the 12 gauge semi auto Beretta and some .50cal sabot slugs instead?

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

And get a haircut.

You can have my hair when you can cut it away from my cold, dead scalp.

Originally Posted by s_morrison57

When are we getting more pics of the fire house?

Some time next week i hope. Going out to home depot today to get a bunch of supplies.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by aigel

The only way to solve this is with a depredation permit. If you don't kill it, invite a friend who can and will. With the damages you have (document them), a depredation permit should be no problem to receive from your fish and game department. If they don't allow you to do the job, have them send you a depredation officer to take care of it.

This bear is a "problem bear" now that he got the taste of an easy meal. He will not change. Why go back to the woods where the food is a lot harder to get? These bears can get aggressive if you get between them and the food.

Dogs will only slightly annoy a bear. I doubt they will change a bear's behavior. The only dogs I would use are a pack of hounds trained to pursue and tree the problem bear after he came by the night before. This way you can easily dispatch it.

Cheers,

George

Best advice yet.

[Taz's Master]

I thought you were the one touting the 30+ rounds of .22mag in a handgun as being lethal enough to carry for bear protection. And I should have remembered the Beretta was a semi. Should have added a smiley. The haircut comment was sheer jealousy, mine never looked good, and now it's almost gone.

In truth, the last thing I want is a bear carcass, just a no trespassing sign it can understand.

[enzo1]

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has been leading the way in bear management through the use of Karelian bear dogs, a Northern European breed renowned for courage in the face of disgruntled bruins. Currently two dogs, Mishka and Cash, are on duty with a wildlife biologist and a wildlife officer. Using techniques pioneered by Montana wildlife biologist Carrie Hunt, these dogs are learning to teach problem bears when and where they're not welcome.

In terms of time and animals, it's a tremendous savings for everyone. The pilot project with Wildlife Enforcement in 2008 along with the success of biologist Rich Beausoleil the past three years has proven how valuable these dogs are for bears and people. The goal of the program is to reduce what biologists call "human-caused mortality"—bears getting killed by people. "It's human-caused mortality that's the main factor influencing whether or not bears can persist long-term in an area," said Beausoleil. "The number one reason why bears die is management removal of nuisance bears," explained Hunt.

Typically, nuisance bears are shot by wildlife officers after they lose their natural fear of humans and begin lurking near human settlements in search of an easy meal. Hunt began examining ways of using Karelian bear dogs to tackle the problem of bear-human interaction some 12 years ago because she "got tired of watching bears die." She put together the Wind River Bear Institute in 1996 to further her ideas on "bear shepherding." It was from WRBI that Washington DFW has obtained their dogs. Hunt uses aversive conditioning techniques to show bears that there really is no such thing as a free lunch. By associating people with discomfort and noise, bears are educated to avoid human contact, eliminating the need for relocation or extermination. The Karelian bear dogs are an essential part of this process, said Hunt.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by aigel

The only way to solve this is with a depredation permit. If you don't kill it, invite a friend who can and will. With the damages you have (document them), a depredation permit should be no problem to receive from your fish and game department. If they don't allow you to do the job, have them send you a depredation officer to take care of it.

This bear is a "problem bear" now that he got the taste of an easy meal. He will not change. Why go back to the woods where the food is a lot harder to get? These bears can get aggressive if you get between them and the food.

Dogs will only slightly annoy a bear. I doubt they will change a bear's behavior. The only dogs I would use are a pack of hounds trained to pursue and tree the problem bear after he came by the night before. This way you can easily dispatch it.

Cheers,

George

This is a potential outcome. I would rather not kill the bear(s). There are several that live close by. I live quite rural, but I'm not isolated, there are other houses fairly close. Dogs and a fence could be inconvenient enough to keep them away, as the population indicates food is plentiful. We'll see.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Black bear maul, and kill, far more people in North America than the grizzly. Severalfold more. Part of it has to do with proximity, but a lot has to do with aggressiveness as well. They are well know to be every bit as, if not more aggressive than grizzlies. I would not take any chances with either. And even a 150 pound black bear will maul you every bit as severely as an 800 pound griz. Then again, either one might very well (and probably will) leave you alone until it thinks you are a problem. They are as individual as we are.

I would strongly suggest you ignore the fish cop's advice about this "training aid". You will succeed in "training" the bear, alright, but you won't be teaching him what you would like him to learn. You will be teaching him that you can't hurt him, and that you can get rather annoying. A very bad combination. Pretty irresponsible to even give that kind of advice, really.

You refer to fishcop but he lives in Oz and did not post on this thread.

You also need to get yourself a new humor detector.

[Rick Lee]

Sniper, can you email me a hi-res version of that photo? I want to print it on an 8x10 and get your autograph when we meet.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by RWebb

You refer to fishcop but he lives in Oz and did not post on this thread.

Generic term of endearment for our LEO's of the woods.

Originally Posted by RWebb

You also need to get yourself a new humor detector.

Yup, caught the first one but missed the second. "Target fixation", if you will. It's an oft repeated "axiom" that black bear are less dangerous than grizzlies. I like to stomp that one out wherever I see it.

Originally Posted by enzo1

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has been leading the way in bear management through the use of Karelian bear dogs, a Northern European breed renowned for courage in the face of disgruntled bruins. Currently two dogs, Mishka and Cash, are on duty with a wildlife biologist and a wildlife officer. Using techniques pioneered by Montana wildlife biologist Carrie Hunt, these dogs are learning to teach problem bears when and where they're not welcome.

In terms of time and animals, it's a tremendous savings for everyone. The pilot project with Wildlife Enforcement in 2008 along with the success of biologist Rich Beausoleil the past three years has proven how valuable these dogs are for bears and people. The goal of the program is to reduce what biologists call "human-caused mortality"—bears getting killed by people. "It's human-caused mortality that's the main factor influencing whether or not bears can persist long-term in an area," said Beausoleil. "The number one reason why bears die is management removal of nuisance bears," explained Hunt.

Typically, nuisance bears are shot by wildlife officers after they lose their natural fear of humans and begin lurking near human settlements in search of an easy meal. Hunt began examining ways of using Karelian bear dogs to tackle the problem of bear-human interaction some 12 years ago because she "got tired of watching bears die." She put together the Wind River Bear Institute in 1996 to further her ideas on "bear shepherding." It was from WRBI that Washington DFW has obtained their dogs. Hunt uses aversive conditioning techniques to show bears that there really is no such thing as a free lunch. By associating people with discomfort and noise, bears are educated to avoid human contact, eliminating the need for relocation or extermination. The Karelian bear dogs are an essential part of this process, said Hunt.

Straight from the "YGTBFKM" department.

The WDFW has become rather infamous amongst hunters and fishermen for cozying up to hand-wringing ninny nit-wits like Carrie Hunt (there is a tasteless joke in there somewhere...). As a matter of fact, the WDFW would seemingly very much prefer our state's hunters kill no game and our fishermen catch no fish. They have become embroiled in (or maybe more like "consumed by") the very worst kind of liberal fee-good politics of game management imaginable. As such, you will simply never get the straight story on the success or failure of these kinds of programs from them. They have lost all objectivity, and are dominated by over-educated fools with nowhere near the field experience of backgrounds formerly required to hold their positions. The old guard has been first shouted down, and finally pushed out by this crowd. The WDFW is in serious trouble, and every sportsman in Washington understands that. They are out of control. Everything they touch gets fcked up in some way. This is no exception.

[vash]

aigel and myself can be on a flight ASAP. get the depredation permit, and we will do the wet work. bows and arrows!! your neighbors wont even know what is happening..except when george and i high five and whoop like savages!!

i would kill the bear.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

[1] Generic term of endearment for our LEO's of the woods.


[2]
It's an oft repeated "axiom" that black bear are less dangerous than grizzlies. I like to stomp that one out wherever I see it.

...

1. you are wrong - I am not a LEO in any way. I am a research scientist in Biology, and a former professor. I studied mammals and taught courses in Mammalogy and Behavior among other things.

2. It is oft-repeated b/c it is correct. You again,m are dead wrong on this. Grizzlies are much more dangerous than Black Bears. I appreciate your (overwrought) concern for the safety of others and agree that people should not antagonize wildlife, even if it appears harmless (say, deer) or is less dangerous than other wildlife.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by RWebb

if that fails, bite the bear on the nose - be sure not to miss and bite the lips or muzzle (the bear may think you are overly amorous and get "excited")

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

Seriously guys, I'm no neophyte, I tried this first

So did you catch him on the lips? Did the bear get excited? Maybe you are going about this the wrong way... maybe you should ask the bear is you can buy it a few drinks? It could be the start of a beautiful relationship!