black bear advice

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by RWebb

PS 1. you are wrong - I am not a LEO in any way. I am a research scientist in Biology, and a former professor. I studied mammals and taught courses in Mammalogy and Behavior among other things.

It's not always all about you, Randy. Here is the bad advice to which I was referring:

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

PS I had a Game Commissioner recommend a sling shot and ball bearings as a teaching aid.

Originally Posted by RWebb

PS 2. It is oft-repeated b/c it is correct. You again,m are dead wrong on this. Grizzlies are much more dangerous than Black Bears. I appreciate your (overwrought) concern for the safety of others and agree that people should not antagonize wildlife, even if it appears harmless (say, deer) or is less dangerous than other wildlife.

You need to do some research, Randy. Black bear attacks on humans outstrip grizzly attacks every year, and not just by a little bit.

[aigel]

Over the years I have pursued dozens of black bears behind a seasoned pack of fierce hounds. Most times it was catch and release. If there is good feed (in this case natural feed) the bears never move out of the area just because of pressure from dogs. They simply run away / tree and go about their regular business 10 minutes after you pull the dogs back. Like I said, a dog is more of annoyance to them than a threat. You can catch the same bear over and over and over. It may just tree faster, after getting nipped a couple of times.

I very much doubt that the Kareilan bear dogs will do anything different. They are just dogs. Like Jeff points out, if the program is driven by the fish and game, why would they have objective data on the effectiveness of the bear hearding dog program?

Some people don't like to see bears killed, as they are such pretty animals and still carry the stigma of being sparse and special. But most western states' bear populations are very healthy. Taking the problem bears will not affect the well being of the species in any way. Yes, you will have a dead bear or two - but there is no dying in bed of old age anywhere in nature ...

Cheers,

George

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It's not always all about you, Randy. Here is the bad advice to which I was referring:


[- ball bearings]


You need to do some research, Randy. Black bear attacks on humans outstrip grizzly attacks every year, and not just by a little bit.

I've done more research in any year than you will ever do. Also, try not to be so confused when comparing a species with a high popn that lives in and around humans with an Endangered species.


I don't know that ball bearings from a sling shot is bad advice, assuming he is somewhere the bear cannot get to if it decides the annoyance is worth attacking or investigating. I agree it is not likely to be particularly effective.

I would be more likely to load the sling shot with M-80s...

[GWN7]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

Aren't you the one who thinks .22mag is a reasonable bear round? Bring the pump gun loaded with ounce and a quarter slugs. And get a haircut.

A .22 LR is a perfectly acceptable round to shoot a bear.......... You just have to shoot it in the eyes

Use a slug. Cook the meat at 350F, 20 min per lbs

[RWebb]

you might have to go thru the eye socket

the area right between the eyes is shaped almost exactly like the hull of a Sherman tank -- I used to hold up a bear skull next to a model of a Sherman tank to impress the graduate students on this point

pistol rounds are also ineffective

if you want to harass the bear an explosive will be more worthwhile & always be somewhere safe - somewhere that stays safe in case the bear decides to invest some of its valuable time in ripping away at your 'safe place' with its claws... or climbs up your tree...

[Gregrrr]

I hike a lot, really deep, and by myself about 50% of the time. I used to be a little freaked out about bears until I saw this page. There is one for cougars too (the cat)

List of fatal bear attacks in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[GWN7]

I had one climb my tree when I was bow hunting in a stand. He got about 10' off the ground and I hit him with pepper spray. He let go with his front paws to wipe at his eyes and fell to the ground. He stumbled off into the brush. I didn't hang around till it was dark like normal. Bear = no deer and I didn't want to be dinner.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

I thought you were the one touting the 30+ rounds of .22mag in a handgun as being lethal enough to carry for bear protection.

No, not me. We had this discussion on the FN Five Seven Forums. It was my opinion that you might as well just throw the damn pistol at a bear for all the good shooting it with a 5.7 would do. :-P

I have 147gr+P FMJ-FN rounds for my 9mm that are made especially for trail defense, and i wouldn't want to have to rely on those either.
They get 40"+ penetration in gelatin, so i'm certain they'd kill a bear, but i seriously, seriously doubt they'd stop a bear.

Huge distinction.

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

The haircut comment was sheer jealousy, mine never looked good, and now it's almost gone.

LOL, i hear you bro...and thanks for the compliment.

Have you tried berating and humiliating the bear? Might just work....

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Sniper, can you email me a hi-res version of that photo? I want to print it on an 8x10 and get your autograph when we meet.

LOL! Sure man, i'd be happy too. Hahaha....send me your email addy in a PM. Smartazz.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by GWN7

I had one climb my tree when I was bow hunting in a stand. He got about 10' off the ground and I hit him with pepper spray. He let go with his front paws to wipe at his eyes and fell to the ground. He stumbled off into the brush. I didn't hang around till it was dark like normal. Bear = no deer and I didn't want to be dinner.

That is funny. And shows how tough they are. In CA you can get a bear tag during deer season.

George

[m21sniper]

Please stop arguing with the PARFessor guys.

[Taz's Master]

Have you tried berating and humiliating the bear? Might just work....


From what I hear bears have pretty thick skin, so I haven't tried that yet. But I'm considering reading "The Bacon Tree" out loud next time he makes an appearance. I can see the bear walking away shaking his head...

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Gregrrr

I hike a lot, really deep, and by myself about 50% of the time. I used to be a little freaked out about bears until I saw this page. There is one for cougars too (the cat)

List of fatal bear attacks in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this makes you feel better??!! Seeing all of these makes me want to stay in a holiday inn!

[Gregrrr]

For one, they're all in Canada, or they're way out in Alaska, Montana, or Colorado. The Pioneers killed all of the grizzlies in our (broad) area because of their aggressive behavior. The experts say they haven't seen one in Washington's cascades for decades, even with the motion detector cameras they have out there.
Two, this is all of the deaths in all of North America. All of the odds are against anything ever happening.
Three, look at the cougar page on wikipedia, you'll see most of them are over 70, or were little kids plucked right from their front yards. Not a huge threat to a few 6 foot tall people on the trail.
Four, I'm not saying I don't pucker up when I see a huge paw print in the mud...

[FastCarFan]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

I plan to take some more permanent measures (extending the invisible dog fence

How you going to get the shock collar on the bear?

[stevej37]

Try this

YouTube - Bear Commercial

[Taz's Master]

How you going to get the shock collar on the bear?

Crap, I am going to need to think this through a little better.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

How you going to get the shock collar on the bear?

just put it over your own head, then when you bite the bear's nose, you just flip it over and onto his neck

simple.

just do not set it off too soon

[Taz's Master]

just put it over your own head, then when you bite the bear's nose, you just flip it over and onto his neck

simple.

just do not set it off too soon

Ideas like this are why I posted the question in the first place.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I've done more research in any year than you will ever do.

Bullshyte. Sheer and utter bullshyte. You have no idea what my background is.

This has been a lifetime passion of mine, Randy. I would put my knowledge of North American game species up against yours any farkin' day of the week. And I have been out there with them, hunting them and observing them for damn near 40 years, first hand, up close and personal. Get off your high horse. You are flat ass wrong.

Originally Posted by RWebb

Also, try not to be so confused when comparing a species with a high popn that lives in and around humans with an Endangered species.

In my very first post on this matter, I was careful to say the superior number of black bear attacks on humans over those from grizzly bears may be due to proximity.

And no, Mr. "Research", grizzlies are no longer listed as "endangered" in the vast majority of their range. Not even "threatened" in most of it, as a matter of fact. Internationally, they aren't even on the watch list anymore. Their recovery in the late 20th / early 21st centuries has been astonishing. You must have missed that in your "research".

So, no, no confusion here, Randy. Not on my side. You, however, have clearly been confused not only with the bears' status, but also with what I have been saying and who I have been saying it to.

Originally Posted by RWebb

don't know that ball bearings from a sling shot is bad advice, assuming he is somewhere the bear cannot get to if it decides the annoyance is worth attacking or investigating. I agree it is not likely to be particularly effective.

Your confusion continues. It's not a matter of the bear pressing an immediate attack when the ball bearings hit him (although he might), it's more a matter of reinforcing for him that the man cannot hurt him.

Originally Posted by RWebb

would be more likely to load the sling shot with M-80s...

That might actually work, assuming he doesn't blow his own hand off.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Again, George presented the clearest, most realistic view and advice on this entire thread. These kinds of bears almost always wind up dead. The sooner that is accepted, the better it is for everyone involved (except the bear). No good ever comes of protracted efforts to "scare one off", or "discourage" one, or any of that nonsense. Relocating him only makes him someone else's problem - they will travel great distances to renew old habits. There isn't enough remote wilderness in the United States to get him out of everyone's way. By the time he is in the garbage cans or chicken coop, it's simply time to deal forcefully with the situation. Get a depredation permit if you are able, or have a fish cop (not Randy) come out and kill it and be done with it.

[jyl]

Easier yet, put it on your head, when the bear eats your head and swallows the collar, then you can trigger the shock.