7mm-08

[Head416]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Quit trying to talk her into something more powerful. Its pointless. Why do you keep looking at larger calibers?

I wouldn't say I'm trying to push her for bigger calibers. I'm trying to decide what to buy for my first rifle. I thought I had decided on the .270 until she shot one and felt it kicked too hard. Even though this will primarily be my rifle, she's shown an interest in shooting/hunting and I'd like to nurture that interest. So, I'm "downgrading" my choice to get something that she will enjoy shooting too. My original idea was to get a good middle of the road deer/elk caliber. If I have to go with a deer caliber that isn't practical for elk so that she can shoot it too, so be it.

Like I said, I'm sure a .270 and a .30-06 are both in my future. So if I need to go with something weaker for now that's fine. However, I came across the 7mm-08 and it sounds like the perfect solution for what I'm looking for. I haven't seen anything in this thread to contradict that, so that's reassuring.

I appreciate the input!

[Head416]

Originally Posted by Head416

And a total newb question... how do you pronounce this cartridge name? Seven-ought-eight? Seven-o-eight? Seven-millimeter-o-eight?

Thanks!

As embarassing as it is to ask that question... anybody want to clue me in so I can act like I know what I'm doing when I walk into a gun store?

[targa911S]

just say 7mm08 and you will be good.

henry now i am lusting for that mannlicher sako! i love full stock guns.

[Henry Schmidt]

I'm no expert but when I built mine last year, I called it a 7mil-08.

Any salesman that treats you "less" because of what you call the weapon is a tool and should be replaced.
Here's my project 7mil-08. Remington 788, carbon fiber stock and stainless barrel.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

HOORAH! Love my old Remington in .257 Roberts. It's good to see this popular in the 1950's caliber making a comeback.

It never went away. I consider it a "shooters choice" caliber. Once you find out about it, it becomes your round of choice. Just my .02.

[targa911S]

in my world elk guns all start with a .3.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by targa911S

in my world elk guns all start with a .3.

.300 Win. Mag is also popular here. Ballistic comparisons between it and the 7mm Rem. Mag are surprisingly similar.

Some folks like Chevy, some like Ford...

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

.300 Win. Mag is also popular here. Ballistic comparisons between it and the 7mm Rem. Mag are surprisingly similar.

Some folks like Chevy, some like Ford...

and everyone and his brother states re: a 7mm..............."its a flat shooter!" and it sho nuff is..............when ya have a LIGHT BULLET..............which is WORTHLESS ON ELK at any distance!


my .308's a flat shooter also with a LIGHT BULLET! and its DAMN FAST! but it aint worth a poo for any distance on an elk. deer...........no problem. antelopezz no problem. gophers..............flat vaporizes them.


it aint chebbie vs furds............................its freaking KNOCKDOWN POWER!



cant tell you how many rotted decaying wasted animals we find each year because of:


1) crap hail mary shot

2) worthless lightweight caliber shot

3) worthless lightweight bullet shot

4) worthless unethical moron shots.




its called HUNTING and yer supposed to ANCHOR THEM!


it just aint the snipers creedo ONE SHOT ONE KILL! its THE HUNTERS MANTRA!



and that comes with a hell of alot of practice(uphill/downhill/wind/rain/snow/heat) and experience.



it also comes with LISTENING to PEOPLE that have a CLUE what does ANCHOR THEM and at WHAT DISTANCE with WHAT GRAIN and TYPE OF BULLET!



man some of you have watched wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy TOO MANY DAKTARI episodes and think they just fall over dead each and every time.


i have never lost any game, but i have humped my azz off FOR FREEKING MILES(EMPHASIS-MILES) chasing down game to recover it. and thats because i had to learn the HARD WAY and i wasnt going to waste my shot let alone an animal.



hell if the .308 was the CURE ALL caliber of the planet i would be the 1st in line to say so. but IT AINT and shooting one of many cow elk years ago with my .308 (3) times dead azz nutz in the breadbasket from maybe 50yds away(TEXTBOOK SHOTS) and watch it take off like a FREEKING FREIGHT TRAIN thru BLACK TIMBER(real thick stuff) and be gone....................well that made me a believer in HEAVY BULLETS!



shooting a freeking human at distance a la iraq/afghan is mere childs play! take a good hard look at the guts of any animal, try and recover yer bullets and see what the hell they do upon hitting organs and bone and hide.



we have been AMAZED at what damage they can incur and still run with the rest of the herd at full mega mach speed thru terrain that will make you cry for mommy!



each and every time it is different. relaxed animal/pushed animal/freeked animal w/adrenalin.


crap moo cows at the farms here drop from a .22 to the skull. but that aint the REAL WORLD!



bigger is better. bigger dont hurt when yer pumped with adrenalin. bigger only hurts on the bench if yer a moron.



and if ya go mega mongo magnum big..................muzzle brake the damn thing.



now heres a few questions on yer 7mm08:


1) do you know yer come-ups? do you know what a come-up is?

2) how are you gonna sight it? 200-300 yds?

3) how are you going to range yer kritters?

4) once ranged are you gonna play hail mary kentuck windage and hold over?

5) what optics are you gonna use?

6) what stadia will come supplied with optic? mil-dot? leupold standard? european? a green one? a red one?

7) how are you going to correct for range re: elevation/windage? take a dime out of yer pocket, tell the kritter "hang on there a minute,while i adjust." or have TARGET turrets?

8) what MOA(minute of angle) 1/4" or 1/2"????????? hmmmm????

9) what scope mounts? low, medium, kind of high, really high see thru's????

10) will you have IRON SIGHTS as a BACKUP????????hmmmmm?

11) and the best for last............have you set yer eye relief CORRECTLY????? it IS mucho IMPORTANTE because how you look at a scope on the bench, and how yer LOP(length of pull) from standing, prone,sitting,kneeling will be much different as far as EYE RELIEF!


and this really does mean ALOT unless ya like getting a scope IMPLANTED INTO YER SKULL like i have(ask me how i know) when i was a young lil pompous whippersnapper 30+ years ago when i bought my 1st .308 with a 10power tasco that made freeking deer look like GODZILLA at 500yds and i hadnt a clue what the hell EYE RELIEF WAS!


yeah i can laugh at my mistakes and faux pas. some here are NOT HUNTERS nor SHOOTISTS, let alone understand how a spoon is manufactured.

i love it every year here, the ones that got away, the ones that were missed, we didnt see any. well if yer missing, somethings VERY WRONG. if yer not seeing ANY..........well yer in the WRONG PLACE and should probably go elsewhere...........or ya didnt take the time/money/patience/care to scout or practice.


i am sorry. truly sorry to clue some of you in..................they just aint tied to trees with yer name on them waiting for you at 1pm after waking up with a hangover, and they dont just drop because you wear a daktari scarf and a kawboy hat with one side pinned up!


it takes a lil more effort than most here wanna put out.

[vash]

wow. i think i recommended the 7mm-08. GREAT QUESTION..i have shot alot of them, and none of them kick..hardly at all! why, i have zero idea! my friend shoots one and deer fall instantly. he is a great shot. we all are. we grew up shooting jackrabbits out to 300 yards. we were kids. i used a 30.06, and my friends had a .270 and the 7mm08, we were so inexperienced or stupid that we would use out cheapo binoculars as BIPODS!! set the lens down, lay prone and set the rifle over the eyepieces...EVEN POS BINOS do not deserve that kinda treatment. we would pop rabbits on the horizon...the first time i looked thru my ancient, foggy WEAVER scope at a deer, i almost started laughing..IT WAS HUGE! it felt like cheating. shooting offhand was cake, after all those tiny bunnies.

[vash]

for the above poster..Superman? the 30-30..yes i am prejudiced against the woeful ballistics, but more polar bears have been killed by that round back in the day by the american eskimo. those guys understood bullet placement..or the dumb bad shots got taken out of the gene pool...whatever. i wouldnt shoot a white bear with one, but people still do.

and the .270. what a bullet!! jack o'conner was it's most famous champion! that man killed everything with one rifle..in .270. that rifle is famous.

[TimT]

I have a 1950's era Winchester Model 70 Featherweight..#425138

.270 Cal.

Anyone interested?

[vash]

Originally Posted by TimT

I have a 1950's era Winchester Model 70 Featherweight..#425138

.270 Cal.

Anyone interested?

ARGGHH!! a pre 64..M70? damn..isnt that what O'Conner shot?

[TimT]

Just did a quick search looks like mine is a 1957

[Jeff Higgins]

Aaron, the long and the short of it is that in shooting, there is no "free lunch". There are two major factors, and a third lesser factor, that contribute to recoil. Bullet weight and velocity are the two biggest factors, with gas pressure a minor, third factor. This third factor really only comes to play in modern, "high pressure" calibers, in the form of kind of a "jet affect" when those gasses exit the muzzle.

Muzzle brakes are most effective in reducing this "jet exhaust" factor, by re-directing those high pressure gasses so they do not push the rifle back at you. Muzzle brakes do nothing to tame bullet weight or velocity factors in generating recoil.

There is no magic here. The 7mm-08 ("seven - oh - eight" when you go to that gun store) shoots about the same bullet weights at about the same velocities as the .270. Recoil will be indistinguishable between the two in similar weight rifles with similar stock designs. Just basic physics here - we can't "fool" physics, no matter how much shooting hyperbole we muster.

Rifle weight and stock design go a long ways towards reducing felt recoil. For example, a 7mm-08 that weighs five pounds and has a butt no wider than your forefinger will generate a good deal more felt recoil than one that weighs fifteen pounds and has a butt as wide as the palm of your hand. Granted, those are extremes, but they illustrate a point. Some calibers have a reputation for nasty recoil simply due to the rifles they were originally widely available in (how about a checkered steel butt plate on a sporterized .30-'06 Springfield?). Some calibers have a reputation for relatively "mild" recoil, like the 7mm Remington Magnum, first issued in the M700 with a nice recoil pad affixed.

In other words, the caliber is only half the question. The rifle is the other half. Your neighbor's .375 H&H, if properly designed and of a weight suitable for the caliber, may have less felt recoil than, say, a Model 7 Remington in 7mm-08. So, we really cannot say "a 7mm-08 kicks less than a .270" - the cartridges themselves generate almost identical recoil. The respective rifles will make the difference. Most 7mm-08's tend to be "lightweight" rifles, while .270's tend to be "full size" rifles. A 6.5 pound 7mm-08 will have more felt recoil than an 8.5 pound .270.

So, don't get too enamored with the myth of reduced recoil in the 7mm-08. Your gut instinct is correct - can't happen. As a matter of fact, I would shy away from the 7mm-08, and other "modern" calibers like it, as a primary hunting rifle. These oddballs really have only two audiences - less than savvy hunters looking for some "magic" and succumbing to advertising hype, or very savvy "hobby" shooters/reloaders looking for something "different". The vast majority of hunters are far, far better served with the old standards - .270, .30-'06, .308, .30-30, etc.

Recoil is always going to be a problem in a hunting rifle. To be both light enough to carry all day and also pack enough punch to reliably kill big game, simply physics dictates there is going to be some noticeable recoil. Yes, "small bores" like the 6.5 x 55 and 7 x 57 Mausers, or the .257 Roberts mentioned earlier have their place (the 6.5 is a personal favorite). They do minimize recoil. They do, however, demand more from the hunter - more discipline in getting close, and more discipline in passing up questionable shots like (quartering away raking shots). They are not for the casual hunter.

My recommendation would be a bolt-action, standard weight rifle in .30-'06 from one of the better known and respected manufacturers. I'm partial to Winchester Model 70's for a lot of reasons, but there are others. Get a good strap on recoil pad, start with light "varmint" loads in the 110-120 grain range for practice, and practice a lot. Shoot the bejeebers out of it. You will get acclimated to the recoil. Any centerfire hunting rifle feels like it kicks a lot to a newer shooter. Keep at it and get used to it. Don't let an initial impression of "wow, that kicks a lot" decide it for you or your wife. They all feel that way at first.

[HardDrive]

This thread slays me. When that moment comes, when you have a deer/elk/velociraptor in your sights, do you really think any of this is relevant? The last deer I killed was with a worn Winchester .308 semi-auto rifle. I test fired it the day before the season. It has an odd scope mount that allowed you to flip the scope out of the way and use iron sights(my great uncle, who owned the rifle was a man of the bottle, it explains much.....). Every time I fired the gun, the scope popped out of the base. I secured it with duct tape, fired 5 more rounds to make sure it stuck, and went on to kill a deer with it 2 days later.

Killing isn't about caliber.

[Head416]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is no magic here. The 7mm-08 ("seven - oh - eight" when you go to that gun store) shoots about the same bullet weights at about the same velocities as the .270. Recoil will be indistinguishable between the two in similar weight rifles with similar stock designs. Just basic physics here - we can't "fool" physics, no matter how much shooting hyperbole we muster.

I started college as an engineering major, and I did that long enough to know there is no free lunch, no perpetual motion, no free energy, etc. That's why I didn't understand how a 7mm-08 could perform similar to a .270 with less recoil. I understand the difference between actual recoil and felt recoil. But there seems to be more going on that just perception.

Here is an excerpt from a Recoil Table seen here:


(weight in pounds, recoil energy in foot-punds)

The above table does not take felt recoil into account. Yet it claims less recoil for the 7mm-08. Maybe it has to do with the pressure of the cartridge, burn rate of the powder, or something completely different. It seems impossible, which is why I started this thread.

The only thing I can think of is that the 7mm-08 accelerates more slowly than the .270.

Engineers on this board may be able to educate us re: impulse-momentum. I changed my major from ME to CIS, so this gets beyond me!

[Head416]

Oh, and I'm not worried about felt recoil in the field. I'm worried about the wife saying "I don't like that gun" and not wanting to shoot it at the range. I want her to like it, and want to keep going.

[MotoSook]

There is really two topics here right? (jumping in late and haven't read every post)

The bullet in flight (ballistics) and the force generated before the bulle leaves the barrel (recoil).

Seems recoil is the topic currently questioned.

Simple F = m*a should explain recoil.

Weight of bullet and the accelerating force combine to produce recoil. So it's the weight o the bullet and the charge of the load one has to consider.

[Head416]

Right, F=ma

But we typically have only the mass of the bullet and muzzle velocity available to us. That doesn't give us acceleration. The only way I can imagine the above table to be accurate would be if the .270 reached its muzzle velocity more quickly than the 7mm-08.

[MotoSook]

You have barrel length and velocity to calc accceleration.