home electrical question

[Red88Carrera]

No water in either panel? Is this a single rental or are there other units on the main service.

[nostatic]

I don't see any (water or critters/droppings). The main is on an exterior wall, the secondary is in the garage.

Good idea on throwing the breakers. I'll wait until Shirley gets home so she can tell me which ones are going out. Not that I don't trust the labeling

[john70t]

Just an idea- I thought the grounds are attached to water pipes inside and/or copper rods in the ground outside.

[carambola]

sounds like you are losing a leg (feeder). if it was the neut then the whole house would flicker and from your description it sounds like multiple circuits. in my mind what is happening is that whatever you are doing is creating heat which opens the connection, the power ceases to flow and you are left without power until the connection cools and resumes contact. i have a feeling that when this is found, it will be quite evident. good luck.

[Red88Carrera]

Originally Posted by carambola

sounds like you are losing a leg (feeder). if it was the neut then the whole house would flicker and from your description it sounds like multiple circuits.

If all the bad devices are on the sub panel it could be a bad neutral. Either way, it's a loose/bad connection.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by carambola

sounds like you are losing a leg (feeder). if it was the neut then the whole house would flicker and from your description it sounds like multiple circuits. in my mind what is happening is that whatever you are doing is creating heat which opens the connection, the power ceases to flow and you are left without power until the connection cools and resumes contact. i have a feeling that when this is found, it will be quite evident. good luck.

The shutting off for hours is new - previously it was just flickering and power cycling (not being off for more than a second, but enough to cycle the cable box, router, etc). Last night was the first time that thing went off and stayed off. Yeah, I know, a bad sign.

There are a small number of outlets that don't seem to be affected, but there have been some times where every light in the house has flickered (though not completely power cycled).

So this likely is an issue at the box rather than in the walls/ceiling? It affects so many of the outlets/lights I'm assuming it would have to be at a somewhat central location.

[carambola]

If you really want to get into this we can. first what you need to do is figure out what circuit(s) the problem is occurring on. as in which individual breakers and which panel. if you are talking more than one circuit it would go back to the panel, if it is from both panels then you are talking either the fire switch (main breaker outside) or even the utility. if you are have problems with only one circuit then it is definitely possible that it could be happening in the walls, the more widespead the problem the less chance of that.

[nostatic]

It is more than one breaker - that much I know. And if I believe the labels it is on both the main and sub. But I don't know that I believe the labels. I'm home alone at the moment so I can't do the experiment of throwing a breaker and seeing what goes out. Sounds like it is at the panel though.

[peppy]

plug a radio in and turn it up so you can hear it cut off.

[billybek]

Aluminum wire?
Can be trouble if not maintained or the wrong breakers/switches/fixtures used with it.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by nostatic

The landlord said there was never a problem before and that my music stuff must be the cause. I have very little gear in there and it is low current draw stuff (class D amp, etc). Plus if it was drawing too much it should trip a breaker which has never happened. Almost all of the built-in lights flicker and power cycle so seems there is something systemic wrong. The wiring at the new breaker box looks like crap.

Thoughts?

Landlord is giving you total BS. The only thing your equipment can do is overload the circuit, and if it does that the breaker will trip. What you are describing is bad connections in the system and they can lead to fires. This is serious and it isn't your fault. I know you are a responsible, can-do guy, but as a renter it isn't your responsibility to diagnose it or correct it.

[carambola]

i have to hit the sack but if the problem does happen tonight listen, with the cover closed, for any popping or snapping sounds. my first place to listen would be at the main panel especially since the meter is right next to it. you have four connections that i am suspecting without more information. the main breaker connections ( not visible in your photos) the line and load of the meter socket and the taps (where the utility meets the housing wires. don't go moving wires in the box as it could make the problem worse. i'll check in the morning.

[nostatic]

She (the landlord) is just clueless. I knew that moving in though. Since her electrician didn't show and hasn't called I'll give until noon tomorrow at which point I'll call a guy that one of my work colleagues uses who knows his stuff. And whatever he charges to take a look will be deducted from next month's rent, and then I'll tell her that either her guy fixes it immediately or I'll pay my guy and deduct that from the rent as well. That's what I had to do to get the garage door fixed.

Always something...

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by carambola

i have to hit the sack but if the problem does happen tonight listen, with the cover closed, for any popping or snapping sounds. my first place to listen would be at the main panel especially since the meter is right next to it. you have four connections that i am suspecting without more information. the main breaker connections ( not visible in your photos) the line and load of the meter socket and the taps (where the utility meets the housing wires. don't go moving wires in the box as it could make the problem worse. i'll check in the morning.

Funny you mention popping. I have a rack mounted power conditioner (that shows line voltage) in the music room. The other night when it was acting up I turned it off and then turned it back on. It's power indicator light flickered and popped/crackled on and off. I unplugged it from the wall.

[dipso]

Could this have anything to do with the high winds last week. You're in Santa Monica, right?
I think several thousand people in LA are still without power.

Maybe it's Edison and the grid, not your house specifically. Has it been going on for more than 6 or 7 days. That was when the winds screwed a lot of thing up.

[Zeke]

Red88Carrera has had this nailed all along. In his panel it's the center lug with the 3 large wires coming down. The service cables are almost always AL and get loose. Now, Todd, I know you're not going to grab your 3/8ths Allen wrench and bear down on that sucker, but that's all it takes. Make sure when your guy shows up that you video him putting a turn on that. Give his bill to the landlord, don't deduct. He can collect if he has to, but the video should take care of it.

Do the feeds in the sub panel too.

BTW, a power company guy told me (in another state where I was working) to tighten down the lugs after 30 days on a new service.

Yeah, right, Bubba. There is no disconnect in front of the meter and you have to pull the meter to disconnect the load side. Not me.

[PFFOG]

As others said don't do anything on a live circuit, it can KILL you, unless you know what you are doing

Dollars to donuts a bad connection on one leg of the feed line, or a bad main breaker, if it was the neutral it would effect all circuits (except 220v). It could be at the meter, main disconnect or at the main breaker in the panel.

One sure way to tell is if the effected circuits are served by every OTHER breaker.

One word of caution, don't just check the tightness, as the screws can seize and appear tight, LOOSEN first, then re-tighten to be sure.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Can't tell much from the photos because we can't see the main connections. I'd like to meet the guy that did that work. He shouldn't have a license, or probably doesn't have one. This is a pic of the panel I installed when I built my house. You don't have to touch anything to see where the wires run.

Sounds like some people here know their stuff, much more than I do. I'm not an electrician and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but this ^^^ is an outstanding installation. Anyone with sense will smile on workmanship like above. The electrical inspectors I have worked with would usually not fail an installation that looks ugly, but they can. And sometimes they do.

Nostatic is not going to be giving any boxes the haircuts they need, but he could just make sure the connections are tight. A good electrical connection is all about having a 'tight,' airless connection. To get that, you compress metal onto metal. Just see if those big screw connections are tight. Aluminum wiring is notorious for shrinking and becoming loose. The big multi-strand stuff like incoming power should be coated with that anti-oxidant stuff and screwed TIGHT.

Then again, I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

[lane912]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Can't tell much from the photos because we can't see the main connections. I'd like to meet the guy that did that work. He shouldn't have a license, or probably doesn't have one. This is a pic of the panel I installed when I built my house. You don't have to touch anything to see where the wires run.

NEC 110.12-----

all work shall be done in a neat and workman like manner---


this is what they are talking about----

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Can't tell much from the photos because we can't see the main connections. I'd like to meet the guy that did that work. He shouldn't have a license, or probably doesn't have one. This is a pic of the panel I installed when I built my house. You don't have to touch anything to see where the wires run.

Mine looks about like the above photo. Do not like the "mix and match" of wiring in your main box and truthfully would wonder if the person who wired this really had a license or not.

This needs to be fixed and now. My first gut feeling was also the neutral side...