home electrical question

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Can't tell much from the photos because we can't see the main connections. I'd like to meet the guy that did that work. He shouldn't have a license, or probably doesn't have one. This is a pic of the panel I installed when I built my house. You don't have to touch anything to see where the wires run.

In my 27 yrs in the electrical trade, Ive never seen an installation that neat and clean.
( except my own work of course.. )

Beautiful work!

[notmytarga]

I could repost Red's lovely service panel picture again for this question to him. Why did you route the three phase (large) conductors to the top of the panel/box - could the breaker frame be inverted to make your install Even Cleaner?? Or does the box require the orientation to remain this way??

If the problem is not loose main connections this box needs to be stripped down and cleaned up or better, replaced. You referred to it as a new box - but its pretty old and crowded. Time for a new box. My bet is that the box connections are deteriorated, pulling the breakers will show the corrosion. I replaced DIY a pool subpanel that went south after 35 years - it was creating lots of heat from poor connections behind the breakers.

[Burnin' oil]

Wow. Ordinarily I am impressed with the PPOT brain trust, but not this time. Have you seen "Paranormal Activity" I or II?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Burnin' oil

Wow. Ordinarily I am impressed with the PPOT brain trust, but not this time. Have you seen "Paranormal Activity" I or II?

I was wondering when the truth would come out.

fwiw my flashlight has also been flickering.

maybe it is just my electric personality.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by notmytarga

I could repost Red's lovely service panel picture again for this question to him. Why did you route the three phase (large) conductors to the top of the panel/box - could the breaker frame be inverted to make your install Even Cleaner?? Or does the box require the orientation to remain this way??

Main breaker is always at the top. At least in that configuration. Can be to the side on some.

[john70t]

Send a same-day certified letter to the LL of occurances, past communications, and note pictures/witnesses/etc. Let her know it is her property and business that is being affected.

Call and confirm.
Do the nice human thing.

If no immediate response, call another electrician to fix pronto, then deduct in writing from rent.

Done.

[Zeke]

It is true that the musical equipment could pull enough to start some arcing on a system that had low use for a long time. However, that is not the tenant's problem. Only if the system is healthy and the tenant keeps popping breakers is the tenant over loading the circuit(s).

I would make this point as well.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Can't tell much from the photos because we can't see the main connections. I'd like to meet the guy that did that work. He shouldn't have a license, or probably doesn't have one. This is a pic of the panel I installed when I built my house. You don't have to touch anything to see where the wires run.

Nice job, but there's a couple of things I don't like about it and I'll tell you why.

1/ I don't like how it's between the studs. 40 years from now the panel will need to be replaced, what if you can't find a panel that is as narrow as the one you have.

2/ The manicured lines look pretty, but again if the panel needs to be replaced what happens if your lines come up an inch short in the new panel?
This is reason #1 why I leave my wires long.

3/ I really don't like how the top lines run down to the top half of the breakers. Reason #2 why I leave my wires long is all the wires entering my panels make a loop down then back up to the breaker. The reason for this is if there was ever a leak in the house and water followed down the wires it's going to flow right into the breaker. The loop will make any water drip harmlessly into the bottom of the panel.

This is a pic of the 100amp panel in my shop, the panel in my house looks similar and is the same brand (for interchangeability of breakers) except it's a larger 200amp service.
Not as neat as yours, because every wire is long and makes the downward loop.
I installed this panel about 15 years ago, since it's in my shop all of the outlet wiring is 12/2 with 20amp breakers.

BTW I was the first reply with "Check and tighten all your terminals", although some have said it in more words.
I was taking this pic so I decided to tighten all my terminals, as I do almost every year and many were slightly loose.

[911_Dude]

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

Can't tell much from the photos because we can't see the main connections. I'd like to meet the guy that did that work. He shouldn't have a license, or probably doesn't have one. This is a pic of the panel I installed when I built my house. You don't have to touch anything to see where the wires run.

Beautiful Box! I have a rental that I have been refurbing all summer. The previous electrician was a total hack. I hate it every time I have to open up the box.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

Nice job, but there's a couple of things I don't like about it and I'll tell you why.

1/ I don't like how it's between the studs. 40 years from now the panel will need to be replaced, what if you can't find a panel that is as narrow as the one you have.

2/ The manicured lines look pretty, but again if the panel needs to be replaced what happens if your lines come up an inch short in the new panel?
This is reason #1 why I leave my wires long.

3/ I really don't like how the top lines run down to the top half of the breakers. Reason #2 why I leave my wires long is all the wires entering my panels make a loop down then back up to the breaker. The reason for this is if there was ever a leak in the house and water followed down the wires it's going to flow right into the breaker. The loop will make any water drip harmlessly into the bottom of the panel.

This is a pic of the 100amp panel in my shop, the panel in my house looks similar and is the same brand (for interchangeability of breakers) except it's a larger 200amp service.
Not as neat as yours, because every wire is long and makes the downward loop.
I installed this panel about 15 years ago, since it's in my shop all of the outlet wiring is 12/2 with 20amp breakers.

BTW I was the first reply with "Check and tighten all your terminals", although some have said it in more words.
I was taking this pic so I decided to tighten all my terminals, as I do almost every year and many were slightly loose.

Mark,

They allow exposed Romex up there? I can't really see, but they look like Romex.

I did not read all of the stuff here, but back to Todd's issue, there's a slightly loose wire somewhere. I'm thinking its one of the neutral wires to a particular breaker. I would tighten up the main wires with that big fat Allen key..

[carambola]

171, I'm still leaning towards a leg out. From what i have read, the problem is on multiple circuits from multiple panels.

[Red88Carrera]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

Nice job, but there's a couple of things I don't like about it and I'll tell you why.

1/ I don't like how it's between the studs. 40 years from now the panel will need to be replaced, what if you can't find a panel that is as narrow as the one you have.

2/ The manicured lines look pretty, but again if the panel needs to be replaced what happens if your lines come up an inch short in the new panel?
This is reason #1 why I leave my wires long.

3/ I really don't like how the top lines run down to the top half of the breakers. Reason #2 why I leave my wires long is all the wires entering my panels make a loop down then back up to the breaker. The reason for this is if there was ever a leak in the house and water followed down the wires it's going to flow right into the breaker. The loop will make any water drip harmlessly into the bottom of the panel.

This is a pic of the 100amp panel in my shop, the panel in my house looks similar and is the same brand (for interchangeability of breakers) except it's a larger 200amp service.
Not as neat as yours, because every wire is long and makes the downward loop.
I installed this panel about 15 years ago, since it's in my shop all of the outlet wiring is 12/2 with 20amp breakers.

BTW I was the first reply with "Check and tighten all your terminals", although some have said it in more words.
I was taking this pic so I decided to tighten all my terminals, as I do almost every year and many were slightly loose.

What are the blue wires going to the breakers, and what do the two top-right breakers feed? Also, why is there a white wire connected to the bottom-right double pole breaker. If it's a feeder, it needs to be identified as such.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by carambola

171, I'm still leaning towards a leg out. From what i have read, the problem is on multiple circuits from multiple panels.

I was under the impression it was a few lights were coming in and out. Heck if its multiple circuits, then it has to be a loose leg. It can't be anything else.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by notmytarga

I could repost Red's lovely service panel picture again for this question to him. Why did you route the three phase (large) conductors to the top of the panel/box -...........

For clarity, that is NOT a 3 phase system, it is a standard 220V panel, 2 hot legs, and a neutral.

Red your installation shows you take pride in your work, but as MH suggested, I always put a U-loop in the wires, not so much for water, but so I have length enough to move breakers up and down in the box.

I am frequently appalled at the sloppy wiring being done in new VERY expensive homes, constructed by some of the mega nationwide home builders, along with poor foundation and for that matter, most of the work.

Best I have seen recently was in eastern Ohio where the Amish or Mennonites, were doing a lot of the construction. You could drive through the subdivision and tell from the road, which homes they were working on.

[nostatic]

Small update. The landlord got ahold of another electrician who will come out tomorrow AM (turns out the first one went out of business - shocking). He suggested I call Edison and have them check to see if there was a problem between the pole and the box. The Edison guy called me after checking and at first said it looked ok on their connection at the house. He asked me if it was multiple circuits flashing/going out and I said yes but it didn't seem to be one board or the other but a mix of outlets/lights. He said that he would need to climb the pole as it sounded like maybe it was a bad connection there. He said that an oxidized connection at the pole can cause every other circuit on the breaker board to go out. Odd - never heard that one before. Haven't been home yet and didn't hear back from him after he went up the pole.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

For clarity, that is NOT a 3 phase system, it is a standard 220V panel, 2 hot legs, and a neutral.

Red your installation shows you take pride in your work, but as MH suggested, I always put a U-loop in the wires, not so much for water, but so I have length enough to move breakers up and down in the box.

I am frequently appalled at the sloppy wiring being done in new VERY expensive homes, constructed by some of the mega nationwide home builders, along with poor foundation and for that matter, most of the work.

Best I have seen recently was in eastern Ohio where the Amish or Mennonites, were doing a lot of the construction. You could drive through the subdivision and tell from the road, which homes they were working on.

You had the answer right there. There were build by the mega nationwide home builders. They charge cheap you get cheap. There is no building code for sloppy or ugly work. In this business, there are no cheap or short cuts. You will end up paying for it twice.

I am finishing up a small house for a woman in one week. I believe I am the third contractor. She's suing one of them. The one before can't product the detail she is looking for. The owner is a real pain the azz and micro manage everything up to the shoe molding. I am fine with that, but she's willing to pay for it. Most contractors just want to bid low, get it done and get pay. If you continue to do that, its fine, but you will always get that kind of work and pay. That's ok too.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by look 171

Mark,

They allow exposed Romex up there? I can't really see, but they look like Romex.

Exposed Lumex/Romex is Ok on the fire resistant plywood that the panel is mounted on. Cannot be mounted on the surface of floor joists or the tops of ceiling/roof trusses.
Some exceptions can apply.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by look 171

Mark,

They allow exposed Romex up there? I can't really see, but they look like Romex.

The panel is mounted to a 4x8' sheet of ply that is covered with fire resistant drywall, >2' above this it's run into the stud wall.
100% code and inspected.

Originally Posted by Red88Carrera

What are the blue wires going to the breakers, and what do the two top-right breakers feed? Also, why is there a white wire connected to the bottom-right double pole breaker. If it's a feeder, it needs to be identified as such.

Two top right breakers are just outlets, slight angle makes them look odd, they do run down. Blue wires are T90 for conduit, one set runs my two post hoist the other set my tablesaw and Blum hinge machine. White leg is 240v for a dust collector and is identified.

BTW besides my shop I've also replaced my house panel, moved my meter base (disconnect required) and wired my garage (I have a shop and a garage) each one is a separate 2-part inspection. 3 times the inspector didn't even come back to do a final inspection including the meter base.

I also have 2 DV fireplaces, DV furnace in the shop and a stovetop, all propane and installed by myself.
I built the shop and attached garage, but the house was here.

[Red88Carrera]

If the white wire is a conductor, it needs to be identified by a marking onto itself. Is there a marking on it that is not visable in the pic?

[futuresoptions]

Hey Todd,

Not trying to freak you out, and I am sure the electrician will find the problem, but the last person that I knew of that was having these kind of issues was on their brand new home. It took about three years but it eventually started a fire and destroyed part of the home. What was found to be the culprit was a short caused by nails that were nailed in through wiring/insulation when they were putting up the sheet rock.