Panamera WAGON hybrid

[kaisen]

[kaisen]

Porsche Sport Turismo Concept introduces Panamera to pulchritude and plugging in [w/video]

Lots of photos and descriptions

[intakexhaust]

Like the looks.

Not trying to be a spoiler, but something more civilized at the 2012 Paris show is this little hot hatch 2 liter 300HP 280 ft. lbs. torque AWD

[onewhippedpuppy]

Frankly the S3 looks like more fun, and probably gets better MPG.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Frankly the S3 looks like more fun, and probably gets better MPG.

Really??? You think the S3 will get better than the Panamera's NEDC 67 mpg combined rating????

Even the new A3 Sport (on which the S3 is based) with the 180hp 1.8L TSFI and S-Tronic (DSG) transmission is rated at 50.4 mpg on the same cycle.

I doubt the 120 hp hotter S3 will magically pull another 16 mpg out of it's azz

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by kaisen

They'd be criticized. Almost all the "high-performance" concept vehicles are hybrid, turbine, electric, etc.

Consider that the next three "big" production supercars are hybrid:

Ferrari F70 Enzo-successor

Porsche 918 Hybrid

McLaren P1

This may be the fourth, but it's ALL ELECTRIC

Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive

740 hp / 738 lb-ft

0-62 mph in 3.9 seconds

$538K MSRP (in Germany)

All Electric 600KWh

NOT a concept, a production car......coming to German showrooms next Summer





2012 Paris: Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive is Most Powerful AMG Ever - WOT on Motor Trend

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Really??? You think the S3 will get better than the Panamera's NEDC 67 mpg combined rating????

Even the new A3 Sport (on which the S3 is based) with the 180hp 1.8L TSFI and S-Tronic (DSG) transmission is rated at 50.4 mpg on the same cycle.

I doubt the 120 hp hotter S3 will magically pull another 16 mpg out of it's azz

Maybe not, but what the hell is an NEDC? I still think it looks like more fun.

[mikeesik]

Porsche is lost.
They should place an ad in the paper.



Funny how their own designs - must- evolve so drastically from birth in order to keep - mother Porsche- able to suckle her new young.

[jannek]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Maybe not, but what the hell is an NEDC?

New European Driving Cycle.

[sc_rufctr]

Sorry but this is just another over priced POS from Porsche.

Can you imagine the "issues" this car will have considering the built to a price motors that have been coming out of the Porsche factory lately. They can't even make a decent gear box. They went to the Japanese for that. Considering the price of a new Porsche there's just no excuse for the compromises they've made in their water cooled cars.

Ironically their most reliable water cooled motors have been the 964 based GT motors

I don't have a problem paying premium money for a premium car but Porsche needs to get back to what made their name. That is building cars that were almost bomb proof.

I hate to say it but a Toyota hybrid would be a better bet. I'd rather have a Lexus Hybrid.

[Rick V]

The way the company is going, jumping on the Starbucks people movers makes me want to puke.
I am all for creative power plants but SUV's, 4 doors and station wagons are not what Porsche should be. I see the end of a great car company and the rise of a new run of the mill, cookie cutter mentality.
Porsche used to mean something, now it is nothing more than the current BMW, which I also am not fond of anymore.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Rick V

The way the company is going, jumping on the Starbucks people movers makes me want to puke.
I am all for creative power plants but SUV's, 4 doors and station wagons are not what Porsche should be. I see the end of a great car company and the rise of a new run of the mill, cookie cutter mentality.
Porsche used to mean something, now it is nothing more than the current BMW, which I also am not fond of anymore.

That was the gist of my earlier post. Porsche branching out into other body styles really doesn't bother me that much, so long as they keep their performance focus. If there's been one consistent theme about the brand over time, it has been performance. If they introduce the ultimate performance wagon I'm ok with it. But branching out into other markets then selling on MPG? Since when has Porsche sold cars based on MPG?

Your comparison to BMW is spot on, as they also seem to have lost their way. Each model gets bigger, heavier, more laden with tech, and less fun to drive. More and more often you see BMWs losing comparison tests and being criticized for not having great steering feel, not offering sporty handling, and having too many gadgets.

But hey, both of them are selling lots of cars, so what the hell do I know? I'm not their target market anyway, I had a hard time buying my wife a new F150 so spending $80k on a car isn't happening. The more new cars I drive, the more I gravitate to the older models.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Since when has Porsche sold cars based on MPG?

I'll state it again:

Porsche, and every other manufacturer, has to make sure their entire fleet sold averages whatever standard the governments set. Fuel economy, or carbon footprint.

So each "fuel economy" model makes room for your lusting 800 hp firebreather or that profitable 500hp turbo SUV that also makes room financially for that low-volume, low-profit 800hp firebreather.

True for Porsche. True for Toyota. True for Ford.

It's no longer the good ol' days when Porsche could survive on a couple moderately priced sports cars selling low volumes.

[911-32]

You guys in the US may not understand this, but in Europe you really cannot advertise performance. By that, I mean you can sell performance and sell a fast car but you are not allowed to shout about it. You have to be seen to be green. Its the only way a car company like Porsche can survive in Europe where fast cars are all assumed to be nasty, polluting, polar beer killing, planet warming etc, list goes on.

Point being, Porsche is not selling on mpg, its just the they have to make a song and dance about the mpg if they are going to be allowed to keep making sports cars.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I'll state it again:

Porsche, and every other manufacturer, has to make sure their entire fleet sold averages whatever standard the governments set. Fuel economy, or carbon footprint.

So each "fuel economy" model makes room for your lusting 800 hp firebreather or that profitable 500hp turbo SUV that also makes room financially for that low-volume, low-profit 800hp firebreather.

True for Porsche. True for Toyota. True for Ford.

It's no longer the good ol' days when Porsche could survive on a couple moderately priced sports cars selling low volumes.

Totally understand your point, but you aren't understanding mine. I understand why they OFFER the hybrid per your points above. But in the last few years they have been advertising MPG and hybrid technology above other attributes, including performance. To me it's a perception thing, and I think it sends a mixed message about the brand's ultimate focus. I expect a Prius to be boasting about MPG, I expect a Porsche to be boasting about performance. Again, I'm not their target customer, and 911-32 provides good perspective that may be part of the motivation.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Totally understand your point, but you aren't understanding mine. I understand why they OFFER the hybrid per your points above. But in the last few years they have been advertising MPG and hybrid technology above other attributes, including performance. To me it's a perception thing, and I think it sends a mixed message about the brand's ultimate focus. I expect a Prius to be boasting about MPG, I expect a Porsche to be boasting about performance. Again, I'm not their target customer, and 911-32 provides good perspective that may be part of the motivation.

In Europe Porsche sells "Premium", and that means performance, quality, MPG, and everyday useability.

You Yanks may not get this yet, but - exotics aside - very, very soon MPG will the single most important factor in most peoples car buying decision...and by getting into this technology Porsche is staying ahead of the curve.

Even if you are buying performance, MPG will increasingly be a big factor when you are buying.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'm just going to become a grumpy old man that only drives old cars. Maybe I'll put carbs on my Carrera......

[intakexhaust]

So I guess my landlubber metallic brown 1972 Ford Thunderturd with a 429 c.i. will finally get attention? How vain!

[RWebb]

where is my 1,000 lb. 200 hp little sports car?

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by RWebb

where is my 1,000 lb. 200 hp little sports car?

It's called a Lotus.