Bully beatdown or sucker punch or both?

[tevake]

Ahoy Fint, I've got to wonder if the guy that got coldcocked. Is you at another time?
Your comments here make it seem as though you identify with the bully in the video. or at least are sympathetic with his actions, as just horseplay.

When you said that you don't do bar fights any more cause no one follows the rules.
It sounded to me like you regret having to give it up, like a favorite sport.

So many of your comments have this underlying tone. If they were real men etc.

Maybe I have miss understood, if so set me straight.

Cheers Richard

[fintstone]

"A little horseplay" my ass. Fint, you are grasping at straws and starting to make things up. Typical PPOT/PARF "never say die" attitude wherein the guy/gal with the unsupportable position starts throwing out all kinds of absurdities in some misguided effort to save face, only to come across as ever more the fool.

If you call what happened before the sucker punch a fight....them you come from a sheltered life indeed. It is nothing that I didn't see every day in school. It wouldn't even be a fight if it were two girls. The bully did not hit anyone hard and clearly could have. The guy he tapped was clearly drunk and would have been on the ground if there was any force in his punch. It was clearly calculated to be delivered that way. Was it embarrassing? Dangerous or a real fight. Just what bullies have done to the weaker person for years. Humiliate them, but don't actually do any damage.

Just because my opinion is different than your opinion does not make it wrong or unsupportable in any way. A cheap shot is still a cheap shot regardless if it it taken at someone you like or dislike. Some things ate just dishonorable. Too bad we just don't seem to care about honor any more...if it suits our purpose. What happened is no different than if you came across a guy you didn't like passed out drunk and took the occasion to take your boots to his face/ribs.

Funny how you would try to make our differing views on this little "fight" video into a personal attack. What is your problem?

[fintstone]

Ahoy Flint, I've got to wonder if the guy that got coldcocked. Is you at another time?

Your comments here make it seem as though you identify with the bully in the video. or at least are sympathetic with his actions, as just horseplay.



When you said that you don't do bar fights any more cause no one follows the rules.

It sounded to me like you regret having to give it up, like a favorite sport.



So many of your comments have this underlying tone. If they were real men etc.



Maybe I have miss understood, if so set me straight.



Cheers Richard

Just amazed at what seems to be considered acceptable behavior these days. Especially when espoused by grown, sober men with the luxury of observing a video (not in the heat if battle or fog of war).

Actually, I have spent very little time in bars or bar fights...so my opinions are a generalization of fights in general where you are not fighting for your life like on the battlefield or against someone intending to kill you.

Yes, I have been in a few fights where you square off against a guy for some some perceived slight, but we squared off as men (even as schoolboys). Everyone involved here had the opportunity to do the right thing. Either square up and be a man, willing to take what they were willing to dish out, or walk away. Some walked, but no one was man enough to take the guy on in a fair fight. Although I hate bullies and have seen this same thing many times before, no one was trying to seriously hurt or injure anyone. The bully would have backed down if confronted by strength. He really did not want to get into a real fight.

As far as me being a bully, just the opposite. Although I never have taken a lot of crap, I was the guy that usually broke up the fight...but if not successful, I would have had to do what I suggested here, walk away or square up and say...if you want to pick on this clearly inferior specimen, you have to come through me first. Sometimes it ended there, often it did not since I am not an especially big tough-looking guy, and some just had to take their shot. This ambush stuff is chicken feces.

Have I been to a lot of dangerous places around the world, yes. It has been my business. Have I been in a fight where I sucker punched a guy? Yes. Once just a few years ago when being mugged by three guys and a few times when being confronted by more than one assailant or the other guy had a weapon. Generally I try to avoid fights and places where people get into fights because I have usually been with a woman (girlfriend or wife) and would not expose them to such...and because when you are out in the sidewalk like the bully from the video, there is no one to protect them. Also because it would have cost me my job...if I were any of the guys in the video.

[Grog]

Humans are truly the worst species to ever roam the Earth. The Earth needs a big asteroid.

[911SauCy]

Silly drunk boy...why you sleepin' on the sidewalk !?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If you call what happened before the sucker punch a fight....them you come from a sheltered life indeed. It is nothing that I didn't see every day in school. It wouldn't even be a fight if it were two girls. The bully did not hit anyone hard and clearly could have. The guy he tapped was clearly drunk and would have been on the ground if there was any force in his punch. It was clearly calculated to be delivered that way. Was it embarrassing? Dangerous or a real fight. Just what bullies have done to the weaker person for years. Humiliate them, but don't actually do any damage.

Just because my opinion is different than your opinion does not make it wrong or unsupportable in any way. A cheap shot is still a cheap shot regardless if it it taken at someone you like or dislike. Some things ate just dishonorable. Too bad we just don't seem to care about honor any more...if it suits our purpose. What happened is no different than if you came across a guy you didn't like passed out drunk and took the occasion to take your boots to his face/ribs.

Funny how you would try to make our differing views on this little "fight" video into a personal attack. What is your problem?

Holy smokes, fint, you sound like a graduate of the Faux Pause School of Misquote and Misdirection. You have so completely misrepresented what happened and what I have said about it that neither the original incident, nor my comments concerning it, are even recognizable in your post. Wow.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by fintstone

The guy escalates a little horseplay into a violent assault and people cheer. Clearly the "bully" had no intention of hurting anyone or he would have been throwing real punches...like the coward blindsided him with. While the "bully" may have "deserved" a lesson...a cheap shot as delivered was not the appropriate one.

By standards established here, someone else should have stepped up and shot the "cheap shot" guy...since his blind side punch was "dangerous" and he could be a "danger" to others.

Fint,

I gotta disagree with you a bit here. The guy was posturing to be sure, but he also hit two people right in the beginning. I have never seen anyone act like that who wasn't a total douche and 90% a bully too. He was quite sure of himself and clearly wanted to throw-down. He deserved a smack-down. ...but he deserved it from the first guy he hit and the one standing next to the tree. That said... the sucker punch was cowardly IMO. Were I the bully I would definitely find the a**hole that did that out of left field and give him a proper beatdown no question.

I see this crowd mentality in all of these vids nowadays. When I grew up, if a bystander jumped into a fight like that, he would likely get a worse beatdown than the original participants. You just didn't do that. Let the guys work it out. You can see the mentality of his buddies too, no one stepped in to take care of the guy who kicked him on the ground.

When I was about 10 I had a bully... ...and avoided the inevitable fight for a long time. When I finally did fight him I beat the crap out of him right in front of everyone. We became buds after that. I wonder how it would have turned out if one of my buddies would have sucker-punched him like that instead of letting he and I duke it out.

[dad911]

NJ man dies after fight outside Jimmy Buffett concert | 6abc.com

Authorities say a southern New Jersey man who was seriously injured in a fight outside a Jimmy Buffett concert in Camden this week has died.

Authorities say the victim fell and hit his head on the pavement when an acquaintance came up behind him and punched him.

I was nearby, didn't see the fight, but was told it was not a brawl, just some horsing around. 1 dead, other charged with manslaughter.

[fintstone]

NJ man dies after fight outside Jimmy Buffett concert | 6abc.com



Authorities say a southern New Jersey man who was seriously injured in a fight outside a Jimmy Buffett concert in Camden this week has died.



Authorities say the victim fell and hit his head on the pavement when an acquaintance came up behind him and punched him.



I was nearby, didn't see the fight, but was told it was not a brawl, just some horsing around. 1 dead, other charged with manslaughter.

Yep....friend of mine's only son died the same way.

[Por_sha911]

"...just horsing around"
"...just a slap. Its not like they were really injured."
"Aw, don't be such a cry baby"
"If you don't like it, you could have moved away"

These are justifications coming from a bully.

What would you say if someone parked next to your Porsche and scratched it but when you complain they said "its just a little scratch - don't be such a cry-baby - if you didn't want it damaged you shouldn't drive it to a parking lot" and refused to be responsible for the damage?

I think you would protest your right to drive your car with a reasonable amount of safety and that they didn't respect your personal space.

[aigel]

I would have gotten the hell out of there and not remained a bystander watching the guy getting in everyone's face. I could smell a fight from two miles away when I was that age. And what's with all the filming?

That said, if you go around in a random crowd starting to smack people (hard or not), you must expect the crowd fighting back. IMHO something like this can become a mass-fight in seconds and if you jump around like that, you have to be ready for anyone in the crowd picking it up!

Finally, has anyone evaluated the possibility that Mr. grey T-shirt may have been connected to some of the other people in the crowd?

G

[vash]

Originally Posted by aigel

I would have gotten the hell out of there and not remained a bystander watching the guy getting in everyone's face. I could smell a fight from two miles away when I was that age.

G

^this. i would have been gone, fast.

i stood toe to toe with a drunk once. first date with my wife. his friend pulled him away. i should have left right away. i was dumb.

[Rick Lee]

I could also smell trouble from afar in those days. And since my band was gigging in college bars at least twice a week back then, I saw just about everything. But I don't recall ever seeing a bully go after random strangers. It was always a targeted thing where the target and aggressor had had words or bumped into each other or had some kind of beef to settle. And there was really no risk in sticking around to watch because (aside from the fact that we were untouchable as the band), no random innocents were ever targeted. I've really never come across a situation like in the clip I posted where someone was just randomly looking for strangers to hit. I think all rules go out the window in such a case. Take him down before he hurts someone.

[VaSteve]

Wonder what that would have looked like if it was in a rougher neighborhood?

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Wonder what that would have looked like if it was in a rougher neighborhood?

They wouldn't have stopped kicking him.

[fintstone]

"...just horsing around"

"...just a slap. Its not like they were really injured."

"Aw, don't be such a cry baby"

"If you don't like it, you could have moved away"



These are justifications coming from a bully.



What would you say if someone parked next to your Porsche and scratched it but when you complain they said "its just a little scratch - don't be such a cry-baby - if you didn't want it damaged you shouldn't drive it to a parking lot" and refused to be responsible for the damage?



I think you would protest your right to drive your car with a reasonable amount of safety and that they didn't respect your personal space.

Nope just differentiating between two very dissimilar actions...the difference is that I do not excuse or justify the actions (poor behavior) of either man.

A much more appropriate car analogy would be that someone hits a car door (not your door) on purpose. You see this and walk over and set his car on fire.

[Por_sha911]

How about some drunk attempting to run after an accident and you stop his getaway by letting the air out of the tires until the police can come and take him away in silver bracelets? Like the punch, it is not permanent damage and did the job.

Try to remember that this was all very emotional and spontaneous. No one had time to analyze the situation. Blind siding the bully isn't the most brave or manly thing in the world but it got the job done. The bully was looking to intimidate everyone and he got put in his place. Keep in mind that if that punch wasn't as effective as it was, the guy in the grey shirt could have had the bully get up and turn his drunken stupidity on him with added adrenaline.

The people wanting to kick the bully? Cowards.

[RWebb]

there are 2 questions here:

1. is it ok for a (young) adult to hit people as long as he doesn't put them on the ground?

and

2. is it ok for a 3rd party to knock out the guy who was hitting people (with a sucker punch)?

[aigel]

To my earlier point, bully boy did not follow a pretty simple rule that's even quoted on Wikipedia: Sucker punch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because sucker punches come unexpectedly, people at risk of such blows must be alert to the proximity of potential opponents

G

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by BK911

I didnt see the bully actually touch anybody, he was just acting like an a$$. Not sure a sucker punch was deserved. Only a ******* sucker punches somebody.

Watch again. He hit a bystander in a black T-shirt, who then came back and kicked him when he was down. The kicks when he was down were uncalled for. The dude in the gray T-shirt did everyone a favor. Good for him.
To answer someone's question, the punchee may have been arrested for drunk and disorderly.