Anyone know Citroens?

[FLYGEEZER]

Nice 123 Mercedes wagon behind the Citroen. Is that one of your cars Denis?

[Zeke]

Well, I'm far from being Max (flieger) but technically the suspension is oleopneumatic. I have a fundamental understanding of the workings of such a system, but in the interest of time I will copy and paste the wikipedia version which is complete enough:

"In a hydropneumatic suspension system, each wheel is connected, not to a spring, but to a hydraulic suspension unit consisting of a hydraulic accumulator sphere of about 12 cm in diameter containing pressurised nitrogen, a cylinder containing hydraulic fluid screwed to the suspension sphere, a piston inside the cylinder connected by levers to the suspension itself, and a damper valve between the piston and the sphere. A membrane in the sphere prevented the nitrogen from escaping. The motion of the wheels translated to a motion of the piston, which acted on the oil in the nitrogen cushion and provided the spring effect. The damper valve took place of the shock absorber in conventional suspensions. The hydraulic cylinder was fed with hydraulic fluid from the main pressure reservoir via a height corrector, a valve controlled by the mid-position of the anti-roll bar connected to the axle. If the suspension was too low, the height corrector introduced high-pressure fluid; if it was too high, it released fluid back to the fluid reservoir. In this manner, a constant ride height was maintained. A control in the cabin allowed the driver to select one of five heights: normal riding height, two slightly higher riding heights for poor terrain, and two extreme positions for changing wheels. [The correct term oleopneumatic (oil-air) has never gained widespread use. Hydropneumatic (water-air) continues to be preferred overwhelmingly.]"

Citroën DS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an example of active suspension, or at least semi active if you consider what can be further achieved with electronic control of individual units. The 911 E had a 'hydropneumatic' front suspension that was self contained in the strut dampers and was not externally adjusted. For the sake of this thread I will say that is the passive version for lack of a better word.

Then there's the 959 but that's another story.

Max?

[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by speeder

I have a friend who wants to buy a good example DS21 in the U.S., research has already started but I thought I'd take a stab in the dark and see if anyone here has knowledge?

I have had a few (however I am in Australia).

The later models are the fastest & most comfortable cars. In todays terms, the DS is quite a simple car - the suspension achieves a fantastic ride but in a very primitive way. The mechanicals are 'ordinary European' from the 1950/60s & as uncomplicated as - say - a SAAB 99/900. They cruise well and look fantastic when in good overall condition; but try & get the Euro headlamps. The most sought after model is the cabrio - there were quite a few in Calif. in the 1980s when I last looked there.



As with the early 911 - the killer is rust in the tub. To quickly check out a DS for rust look in the trunk (boot!) and work forward. Trunk lid & the rail where the lid closes, floor, then C pillar, floors in the cabin, roof attachment ledge & them in the front engine area around the hood hinges. If the car passes this test then start looking seriously!!

All parts are available, Holland is a good place for repro replacements.
Like the 911, they are an iconic car (but quirky) and should hold their value.

Good luck for your friend on the search.

Peter in Melbourne.

[speeder]

Thanks for all the responses! The cabriolets are cool but very valuable, apparently around $200k USD in perfect condition. My friend really wants a sedan anyways, aiming for a really good rust-free DS21 in the right colors.

[Bill Douglas]

Friends know when to tell friends NO.

And this is the time his/her life will become a misery if you don't stop it now.

And the French call them a Ceet-trow-een.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Friends know when to tell friends NO.

And this is the time his/her life will become a misery if you don't stop it now.

And the French call them a Ceet-trow-een.

Citroen, if you take the e out you got a Lemon...

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

And the French call them a Ceet-trow-een.

It roughly translates as funky. Tre funky.

[speeder]

They sold something like 1.5 million of them, pretty amazing if they are really the POS you guys are implying. You make it sound like an air-cooled 911 or something.

[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by speeder

They sold something like 1.5 million of them, pretty amazing if they are really the POS you guys are implying. You make it sound like an air-cooled 911 or something.

The original 'planned' engine for a Citroen DS was to be an air cooled flat 6 in the front, like the 911 layout but front wheel drive. Remember Citroen had plenty of experience with small aircooled motors with the Citroen 2CV and the Panhard flat twin.

This would have been released in 1955/6, many years before the 911, but I suppose they felt they had enough technical innovations for the car to sell well (which it did). It had a 20+ year run of production.

One more recommendation for anyone wishing to buy one is to find a 5 speed g/box example.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by FLYGEEZER

Nice 123 Mercedes wagon behind the Citroen. Is that one of your cars Denis?

That is my car, yes indeed.

[RWebb]

how do you keep the suspension from leaking?

[speeder]

how do you keep the suspension from leaking?

On my car? Haven't had a problem with it, but if I did, I would repair or replace the bad component.

[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

how do you keep the suspension from leaking?

Yes Citroen thought about that too (in 1955).
The DS has a 2nd low pressure hydraulic circuit which directs any internal hydraulic leaks back to the big main fluid storage tank. For example if a steering rack seal weeps fluid - it is picked up and sent sent back rather than spilling out onto the ground, same with the suspension spheres.

In practice you never see a hydraulic leak onto the ground (accidents excluded off course) & the car is usually quite dry underneath - especially when you compare the underside with a 911 motor &/or an English sports car with oil dribbling everywhere.

One of the disadvantages of driving one is that it is so smooth and easy to drive with comfortable seats, that its very easy to fall asleep on a long drive. Another difference from our P. cars!

[RWebb]

so, the old sayings about "they leak everywhere, all the time" are not true?

[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

so, the old sayings about "they leak everywhere, all the time" are not true?

Not in my experience. Considering the hydro fluid is a version of Automatic transmission fluid which leaks out of lots of ordinary transmissions - the DS is very dry underneath - unless a hose is accidentally punctured for some reason.

Because any internal leaks are plumbed back to the reservoir its hard to tell if there is a problem. The tell-tale sign is when the rear suspension takes longer to rise up than usual after starting. Then you activate the automatic bleed device to get any air out of the system & start checking off the individual seals ( an example would be one of the hight-corrector units).

On high mileage DS s any leaking is usually past the power steering seals. Repairing these power steering rack seals is a mongrel as the design is very old (1950s !) and quite primitive compared with modern cars.

[RWebb]

interesting


the other old saw I hear about these is that you park them and maybe the bumper overhangs one of those parking lot berms they use to separate the spaces

and then you come back and the car has dropped down and is stuck on the berm - the car cannot pump itself back up to the correct ride ht.

also BS?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by RWebb

interesting


the other old saw I hear about these is that you park them and maybe the bumper overhangs one of those parking lot berms they use to separate the spaces

and then you come back and the car has dropped down and is stuck on the berm - the car cannot pump itself back up to the correct ride ht.

also BS?

Whomever you knew with a Citroen DS had one POS hooptie example...that would require a completely failed hydraulic system.

Here's a beauty, possibly over priced: Citroen DS 1972

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by speeder

... Here's a beauty, possibly over priced: Citroen DS 1972

Like he said; De toute beauté...

[Steve Carlton]

Those French... they sure like snails!

[Steve Carlton]

How about this DS23?

Citroen DS23 Pallas Pallas | eBay