Anyone using the Knee Defender?

[jyl]

I hope you're not trying to persuade us that legroom hasn't shrunk dramatically in the past decades.

[island911]

Originally Posted by jyl

I hope you're not trying to persuade us that legroom hasn't shrunk dramatically in the past decades.

Oye. I'm saying that legroom is not seat pitch. And, contrary to your assertion, I'm saying that deregulation did not drive less legroom.

John, legroom - or lack there of, has been all over the map. There is no one standard. Have you seen the seats in the Ford Trimotor interior? Fairly generous seat pitch, thin steel seat-backs . . .and leg-room sucked.

There is a lot more to legroom and comfort than just seat pitch.

[island911]

Originally Posted by jyl

Seat pitch was typically 40 inches in the 1940s-1950s. In the mid 1970s, typical was 34-36 inches. In the late 1980s, typically 32-33 inches. Currently typical is 30-32 inches, this is in standard coach.

Flying Across America - Daniel L. Rust - Google Books

There is no rule that says airlines have to provide reclining seats.

What happens then? The seat pitch pulls tighter, 30" or so.

IOW, each seat-back is then in the passenger's face as would be a reclined seat in front of an upright seat ... and there will be no reclining away from that close seat back. But at least everyones knees are more cramped. :-/

Oh, and more competition for the overhead bins! yay!

[imcarthur]

Well, I've spent 15 hours this week in a 32.0" pitch going to/from Paris compliments of Air Canada (my 3rd cross-Atlantic economy jaunt this summer with them). My rating: Just bearable. Drink wine & take your favorite form of knockout drug. The wings on the seat-backs + window seat were a godsend for sleeping. And I had an empty seat beside me for my 8 hours today!

And On-Topic we didn't have any fights on-board today. Of course, a planeload of Canadians is never in too much danger of any trouble although I DO have stories . . .

Ian

[Tervuren]

Some of us need to lighten up.

[island911]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

.

And On-Topic we didn't have any fights on-board today. Of course, a planeload of Canadians is never in too much danger of any trouble although I DO have stories . . .

Flying with a Hockey team, eh?

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

a planeload of Canadians is never in too much danger of any trouble although I DO have stories . . .
Ian

Too bad I wasn't there with my Bruins jersey!
Doh! Island beat me to it.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

+1
My seat was designed to recline. Why am I a criminal to use a comfort feature placed on the plane for my benefit. Airlines need to have a policy on it.

The woman's only mistake was to not let the flight attendant handle the douche behind her. If she had, he would have gotten thrown off and she would have made it to her destination.

These things have been around for a few years now. As a pilot, I have had several complaints from the Lead F/A about people complaining over these devices being used. I always allow it. There is no policy against it, so I'm not going to tell them they can't use it. Simple solution is I usually suggest they swap seats. 99% of the time that works and of course the person in front now promptly reclines.

Bottom line: You're an a$$hat if you recline. You know it, and everybody else knows it.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Bottom line: You're an a$$hat if you recline. You know it, and everybody else knows it.

Gonna disagree with this. I paid for the seat and the feature. I specifically avoid non reclining seats. You are ann a$$hat for allowing someone's prissy sensitivity to outweigh what I paid for.

Number one the pivot point on the seat is even with the knees, so where the knees are, the seat moves maybe an inch. If you are so freakishly tall that your knees hit the seat, then buy a better seat.

Number two the headrests on the seat actually push your head over vertical in many cases. So you are actually looking down unless you recline a little bit... Unless of course you are freakishly tall and your head is above them. Mine isn't and all the headrests are very uncomfortable.

Three, i recline every time. Not all the way and only when resting but tough *****. If you don't like the feature or are too tall, the. Address it with the airline who makes the seats so damn small, don't ruin my flight.

[RANDY P]

if you weigh 400 LBS, are 7 feet tall, insist on having a full-on mini CES display complete with 40" laptop in your area as you travel-

upgrade to 1st class. You shouldn't be flying coach since you don't fit.

I agree- the faux outrage over people who recline the seat is just an excuse. What's next? Get pissed because the guy in front of you sits in the seat?

[cstreit]

The anger is mis-directed. The airlines have shrunk the room down to a barely human amount of size. Again, the headrests in the seat are right at the point where they push my whole head forward and angled down so I do lean back a bit so I can actually look forward.

You guys want to make it out that somehow the seat angle makes a difference. It doesn't. It decreases your air space sure, but the pivot point is even with you knees meaning the distance from the seat to your knees doesn't change appreciably.

A 6'1" person has an average back to knee length of about 25" and the average distance on the seat is 31". If you sit straight up and move your feet forward slightly there is no problem.

My real beef is that once the seat is reclined I can't even lean forward to reach my bag on the floor. That does suck. The airlines suck for reducing legroom... ...but don't make this the passengers problem, take it to the airline.

...my credentials? 500k airline miles in my FF account.

[dad911]

I agree Chris. I'm flying tomorrow, Tired, working late tonight, I plan to recline and relax.

If the guy behind me has one of those (d-bag, I'm better than you so I deserve more space) devices, I will do the same as the original article. I will ask for it to be removed, and if they refuse, well, I'll make the spilled water look like an accident......

And if the person in front of me reclines, no problem. Their seat is made to recline. I'm 6-1, and can deal with it for a few hours. As others have said, if I move my stuff under the seat in front of me, I have enough legroom. And I realize I could spend more and upgrade, but it's my choice not to.



So my flight tomorrow would have cost about twice as much in 1980. For the savings, I'll deal with the legroom.

[RANDY P]

just make sure you say "Oops" after you let the drink go- not before, and hit the keyboard.

rjp

[dad911]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

just make sure you say "Oops" after you let the drink go- not before, and hit the keyboard.

rjp

Flying Frontier tomorrow, just checked their website: Knee Defenders inhibit seats from reclining and are prohibited for use onboard

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

These things have been around for a few years now. As a pilot, I have had several complaints from the Lead F/A about people complaining over these devices being used. I always allow it. There is no policy against it, so I'm not going to tell them they can't use it. Simple solution is I usually suggest they swap seats. 99% of the time that works and of course the person in front now promptly reclines.

Bottom line: You're an a$$hat if you recline. You know it, and everybody else knows it.

Airlines that ban the Knee Defender: air travel - Which airlines ban the use of Knee Defenders during flight? - Travel Stack Exchange

Air Canada
American Airlines
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Frontier
Jetstar
Qantas
Southwest Airlines
United Airlines
Jetstar
Virgin Australia
WestJet

I would also think the default condition would be to not allow any device that alters the operation of a mechanism on an airplane.

So on your plane, if I set up a device that is not specifically banned, to increase my comfort at the expense of others, you would have no problem with it?

And really, an a$$hat for using a airline supplied feature?

Tomorrow, I be an a$$hat.

[RANDY P]

only asshats use the TP in the restroom...same for eating the free peanuts...

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

peanuts...

Peanuts? You still get peanuts? Air Canada only gives out lousy pretzels now. Now I AM pissed.

Ian

[motion]

I'm at over 160K miles already this year and have never had anyone recline into me... oh snap.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by dad911

Airlines that ban the Knee Defender: air travel - Which airlines ban the use of Knee Defenders during flight? - Travel Stack Exchange

Air Canada
American Airlines
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Frontier
Jetstar
Qantas
Southwest Airlines
United Airlines
Jetstar
Virgin Australia
WestJet

I would also think the default condition would be to not allow any device that alters the operation of a mechanism on an airplane.

So on your plane, if I set up a device that is not specifically banned, to increase my comfort at the expense of others, you would have no problem with it?

And really, an a$$hat for using a airline supplied feature?

Tomorrow, I be an a$$hat.

^^News to me and the airline I speak of is one of those listed. I'm sure many are diffused at the FA level, but as I mentioned, if it becomes an issue, simply swap seats with each other. I don't ride in the back often enough to care what the cattle is doing back there.

[motion]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

^^News to me and the airline I speak of is one of those listed. I'm sure many are diffused at the FA level, but as I mentioned, if it becomes an issue, simply swap seats with each other. I don't ride in the back often enough to care what the cattle is doing back there.

That's some attitude you have about your pax. Which airline do you fly for?

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by motion

That's some attitude you have about your pax. Which airline do you fly for?

Don't worry, just an inside joke. It's a common saying up front. Of course we care about our pax, but you would not believe the things I saw on a daily basis between pax. People getting in arguments about other people taking their shoes off, or lifting armrests or sunshades, etc.. it is never ending. As I mentioned earlier, if it gets to us up front, I always try to help the situation by having them swap seats, moving around etc. Basically trying to make everybody happy.

I follow more of the 'why can't we all get along' rule..!