*Singer Announces Engine Collaboration with Williams*

[aschen]

should we start guestimating a price, or has there been anything mentioned?

125ishk or is my working class bias by sudgesting such a low number?

[aigel]

You can't make new cars with very high performance air cooled engines that pass emissions and noise restrictions. That's why the air cooled 911 went away. Nevertheless, it is nice to see that someone continues to make them along the trajectory of what we could have expected from Porsche, without the smog laws.

How do Singer's get registered in CA? They are a 964 VIN and will need smog checks. No way in hell will this engine pass a smog check in a 964 chassis in CA.

Probably all doesn't matter. Someone buying one of these has probably several out of state properties they can register it to.

G

[onewhippedpuppy]

Putting aside the performance, that's a thing of beauty. One of the really unique things about Singer is how well they integrate form and function.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Won

Very cool! I think Captain Ahab Jr may have had a thing or two to do with this project too

Can't take credit for very much at all as the hard work has been done by a small core group of very talented people at Williams.

I'm only on the sidelines of this project now so keep up to date as I can and offer technical advice as and where I can.

As an olde skool air cooled dude this project is right up there at the sub-zero end of the cool wall. I'll build a 1 43 model car display cabinet eventually one day and will proudly show the new Singer model along side the other road/race cars I've been lucky enough to have worked on over the years.

I'd love to reveal more but as I'm not paying the bills and its not my gig its only right Singer and Williams announce further news ......... which I'm sure will be as well received as the engine has been.

[rusnak]

I seem to recall 4.0 liters as some sort of point where there were crankshaft balance issues or something like that.

Is there a harmonic balancer? Did they take power off of the end of the crank?

With Mezger involved, did they retain dry sump, and what sort of drive for the cams?

Technically, they're calling it a design study and are not yet trying to offer it into production.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Putting aside the performance, that's a thing of beauty. One of the really unique things about Singer is how well they integrate form and function.

Exactly. Everything on their cars is just spot on. I love the detail shots in their photo gallery. I use them for my desktop background at work, and I've had several people accuse me of having car porn on my computer when I hook up to a monitor to do a presentation.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Noah930

The naturally-aspirated GT3 did get the Mezger block motor. But I understand your question; why not the rest of the 996 line? I think there's an article in this month's (Sept 2017) Excellence that partly addresses that question. The M96 motor was meant for the new water-cooled generation. But it was intended for "rational and low-cost production," and not racing. The wet sump was used to help avoid leaks. But when the factory wanted to go racing with a flat-6, they used the Mezger-blocked dry sump motor as the basis for the GT2/GT3 cars (and Turbo, to make the numbers such that development/tooling would be financially worthwhile).

So will Ed Pink still be building these Williams-engineered 4.0 liter motors? Are they based on an existing block? Right now the market for 3.6 motors/blocks is slim due to Singer supposedly buying up a lot of donor engines.

I get all of that but a 911 is not a cheap car. It's sold as a premium product and therefore should be durable and reliable. End of story!
Why do we all jump to defend Porsche when lots of people all over the world are making a living repairing these engines?

What this reminds me of is the disintegrating wiring harnesses in the early to mid 90s MB's. Mercedes-Benz has never acknowledged that there was a problem and yet 100,000s of their cars were affected.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Looks beautiful.

Perplexed why we are comparing Singer to Porsche. I doubt it's Singer's goal to make Porsche jealous. They are doing their own thing, on a very small scale, for a very small market segment, and it's awesome. Just enjoy it for what it is.

Jealous, no. But Porsche does take notice. I read an article interviewing a Porsche exec and they realize those with $$ means looking for something unique may be cross shopping a Singer and/or a 918 (or a McLaren, etc). When the Singer is purchased the customer is getting a level of exclusivity that even the 918 can't provide, that Porsche can't provide. They notice.

[svandamme]

I think it looks like ****.
to polished, stupid fan duct makes it look like a 747 engine or somming.
To much intake box crapola.

Just like the rest of stuff they make..looks plastic toy like, to polished and clean to be any good.
It's like a big 1:1 model car for rich people to brag about.. How many Singers are there really? How many are on the road? Like actually driven?

[sc_rufctr]

You wont be able to see most of that "intake box crapola" once it's installed... Meanwhile go out and get some fresh air.

Your negative attitude isn't flattering.

[Won]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I seem to recall 4.0 liters as some sort of point where there were crankshaft balance issues or something like that.

Is there a harmonic balancer? Did they take power off of the end of the crank?

With Mezger involved, did they retain dry sump, and what sort of drive for the cams?

Technically, they're calling it a design study and are not yet trying to offer it into production.

That lump on the lower left hand side of the cam tower looks suspiciously like an oil pump out of a Cosworth engine...

In my dreams, this engine will have a full gear driven valve train. Actually, I would be disappointed if Williams has done anything less than that. After all, it's ancient technology.

[JossP80]

Originally Posted by aigel

How do Singer's get registered in CA? They are a 964 VIN and will need smog checks. No way in hell will this engine pass a smog check in a 964 chassis in CA.

G

Last I heard, the bespoke motors (and almost all are) don't pass smog in California, but Singer was working with CARB to try and change that. No updates on that as far as I know...

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by Won

That lump on the lower left hand side of the cam tower looks suspiciously like an oil pump out of a Cosworth engine...

In my dreams, this engine will have a full gear driven valve train. Actually, I would be disappointed if Williams has done anything less than that. After all, it's ancient technology.

I think it was Frere, or maybe Ludvigsen who attributed the dry sump and chain drive for the cams to Piech, who moved to the racing department after influencing the 911 production motor. He must be one hell of a persuasive guy. Probably very logical.

[Tremelune]

Wish I knew more about that muffler.

[rusnak]

No muffler. That looks like two high flow cats.

[Tremelune]

A Singer race car?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Could be two small bullet mufflers along with the X pipe. Do current Singer cars have any emissions equipment on them?

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by JossP80

Last I heard, the bespoke motors (and almost all are) don't pass smog in California, but Singer was working with CARB to try and change that. No updates on that as far as I know...

Register in montana...

[911Freak]

To answer a few of the most recent questions:
Smog: yes there is a Ca smog spec, sticker and all. yes it's a 3.8, achieved thru CARB
Yes, there are smog legal cars putting miles down in Ca. I've put over 500miles test miles on them. It took a hell of an effort but the team did a great job getting it done. It's legit. Last I knew they were doing another CARB program for the 4.0.

Emissions equipment: I won't get into technical details as that info is out there. You can read about their engine option specs on their website
Remember they do 3.6, 3.8 & 4.0 engines.
Cats are used as well.

Most of the cars are driven hard and often by their owners. Unlike the first few cars that didn't get run hard, they do now. Have you seen the Moscow car (AWD) in the Snow driving with the Koenigsegg? They're driven. There are lots of them out and about.

They have some huge projects in the works, not my place to bring them to light here but stay tuned.

I worked there for 3 years. Have over 5k miles driving them.
From car 7 thru 60 something. Senior builder, test driver, Carbon body QC, vehicle dynamics (sound deadening to shake down), production manager etc. It was a fun gig. Tough and challenging but massively rewarding.

Rob is a visionary and has some very cleaver engineers working with him.
I hope they continue to thrive.
The cars aren't for everyone but I appreciate them for what they are.

Hope that helps.

[Tremelune]

Um. I would love to hear about what sound deadening techniques were employed and how...