KW v3 Install plus suspension refresh advice

[wi54545]

Ok,

Just placed an order with our host. There goes my PCA discount.

Setup as follows...

KW Variant 3 with 19mm Raised spindles (already bought, not installed)
New Lem ball joints and hardware
Rebel Racing adjustable Bump steer
Eibach Sway bar kit front and rear
Elephant racing quick adjust Spring plate kit
ER rubber bushings front and rear
ER quickchange hollow torsion bars 21/27mm
ER Rubber camber plate bushings
ER Trailing arm Sport rubber bushings
ER tools for trailing arm bushings and A-arm bushings

That wasn't cheap. Hopefully I won't do this again for years...

[quickxotica]

Originally Posted by wi54545

Ok,

Just placed an order with our host. There goes my PCA discount.

Setup as follows...

KW Variant 3 with 19mm Raised spindles (already bought, not installed)
New Lem ball joints and hardware
Rebel Racing adjustable Bump steer
Eibach Sway bar kit front and rear
Elephant racing quick adjust Spring plate kit
ER rubber bushings front and rear
ER quickchange hollow torsion bars 21/27mm
ER Rubber camber plate bushings
ER Trailing arm Sport rubber bushings
ER tools for trailing arm bushings and A-arm bushings

That wasn't cheap. Hopefully I won't do this again for years...

@wi54545 Any updates/feeback?

[944Skid]

Also curious to know how this turned out. I went a similar route, new bushings, kw V3s, 22/29 T bars, and turbo tie rods 7/8 911 fuchs. Using stock sway bars with reinforcement and a spacer instead of a bump steer kit for euro height. Car is still in the shop, excited to see how the car feels.

[shoooo32]

Making no other changes besides the KWs, bumpsteer kit, and a thru-body front sway bar, I'm properly impressed with the suspension update. The ride is slightly firmer yet more comfortable because it doesn't crash over bumps. I can attribute that to the raised spindles, as my car was pretty low and the Bilsteins spent a fair amount of time on the bump stops. I was able to tune out the understeer that's been irritating me for years with just a few clicks.

I installed another set last month on a 1975 911 that had been widebodied with 930 bananas. As a former racer it had older Bilstein RSRs and they were way too stiff for the street. The car owner opted for KW V3s and once again they turned out great IMO. Perfect for a spicy street car.

[PeteKz]

Re the KW struts that come with a 19mm raised spindle: did they offset the steering arm down to correct for bump steer? Or do you have to install spacers or something to correct for the raised spindle?

Next question for anyone who has tried this or knows: If one starts with a stock strut and raises the spindle 19mm, can you bend the steering arm down 19mm to correct the bump steer? It seems to me that should work, and avoid the necessity of adding the lower brackets and Heim joints to correct for bump steer with a raised spindle (like Elephant Racing does).

[shoooo32]

Unfortunately Pete, KW did not modify the steering arm on the raised version. You have to run a heim with spacers. Seems like a miss on their part as I'd have paid more to avoid the bumpsteer kit.

It would be interesting to see if you could bend it enough to eliminate the need for a kit and not affect the geometry. Would the tie rod hiem have enough articulation to make up for the hole being on an angle? I have a junk spindle laying here - might be a fun experiment

[PeteKz]

Tony, thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, repositioning the arm seems like an obvious thing to do. Too bad they didn't do it.

I might experiment with my current stock struts by bending the arms down 3/4" but that will have to wait for a winter project.

[Mr. Merk]

I asked KW why they didn't address the bumpsteer and it had to do with specific alterations not allowing TUV or whatever legal red tape that doesn't make any functional sense.

[LukasM]

Yes it sure would have been nice if KW had addressed this on the lowered spindle...

Originally Posted by shoooo32

It would be interesting to see if you could bend it enough to eliminate the need for a kit and not affect the geometry. Would the tie rod hiem have enough articulation to make up for the hole being on an angle? I have a junk spindle laying here - might be a fun experiment

One problem with bending the arm is that you change the lever and therefore the steering effort.

I would do it like Jonny did, combine steering rack spacers (I think you can fit 10-11mm ones without creating interference) with a proper bump steer kit. The height of the spacers you then need on the spindle arm is so short that the forces will not be able to bend the bolt.

Cheers,
Lukas

[Mr. Merk]

We were unable to combine the 10mm rack spacers with the bump steer kit when using 19mm raised KW spindles. I can't remember what the issue was now but I talked to Chuck at Elephant and he said to remove the rack spacers when using the bump steer kit.

If using both, the potential for overcorrection exists. Normally the tie rod end kit alone has adequate range for full correction.

Only exception to that would be our bolt on kit with a big spindle rise, like 40mm+

Our racing kit can handle anything.

[wi54545]

Sorry, just getting to this now. I installed everything this spring. Almost everything went well except for sourcing the 28mm hollow torsion bars from Elephant (took about a month) and one strut that wasn't up to spec (lacked a nitrogen charge, KW replaced the strut). Only other challenge was sanding the spindles so it would accept the bearings. It didn't take a lot on the left strut, a ton on the right. I sanded the right strut all the way to 7000 grit. Maybe that replacement strut was out of spec on the spindle.

I used Rebel Racing bump steer kit to get it close. It probably could use a couple more spacers to dial out the bump steer, but its pretty good right now. Got it aligned to a aggressive street spec at AutoEdge in MN. I basically replaced everything. Only suspension bit I didn't do was the rear wheel bearings. Everything else was replaced with Elephant Sport rubber. New QC elephant spring plates and banana arm sport bushings. Eibach Sways on the middle setting. I set the KWs to the stock setting (haven't started playing with that yet). I also put Euromeister 17 inch Fuch Reps on with Firehawk 500 215 front 245 back tires. Much better Stance.

The car drives amazing. Like night and day. So confidence inspiring. Feels almost modern. I love it. Would feel confident on the track or street. Its just that good. So flat. It sticks. Totally happy with it.

[shoooo32]

I'm positive the increase in performance is not just the shocks alone as your car had a bunch of work done, but these really are a big part of it.

One of the great things about road rallies (organized group drives) is there's usually a bunch of DIY guys that have modified their Porsches and love to bench race their setups. We swap keys often so I've driven a ton of cars over the years. Last fall I drove five aircooled 911s one morning in Arkansas and the one that stood out had the KWs. I've since driven three more cars with these dampers and I continue to be impressed. Yes there's some things they could do better (mask the spindle during the coating process!!!) but overall they are a solid value for the money on a spicy street/occasional track use car.

[PeteKz]

Originally Posted by LukasM

Yes it sure would have been nice if KW had addressed this on the lowered spindle...




One problem with bending the arm is that you change the lever and therefore the steering effort.

I would do it like Jonny did, combine steering rack spacers (I think you can fit 10-11mm ones without creating interference) with a proper bump steer kit. The height of the spacers you then need on the spindle arm is so short that the forces will not be able to bend the bolt.

Cheers,
Lukas

Lukas: I had my car up on the lift today and eyeballed the steering arms. They actually bend up a little bit so the they are roughly parallel to the ground when the wheels are pointed straight ahead--remember the caster of the car is about 6 degrees.

If I were to bend the arm down 19mm, to offset raising the spindle the same amount, it will very slightly increase the length of the lever, rather than shorten it. But given the length of the arm, that change in leverage would be imperceptible at the steering wheel.

I may try it this winter.