Anyone with KW V3 struts/shocks?

[Bli8]

KW makes a replacement struct w/ adjustable shocks for our cars but I can't find any review or user experience from anywhere. A search using the word "kw" came back lots of posts but nothing on the V3 shocks. I'm looking for new struts as I sent mine off to a shop for raising of the spindle, then never heard back from them so chances are I'm out of a pair of struts and may as well see what other aftermarket struts are out there.
They look good too

[Jonny042]

I have them and they are awesome. They have versions with the spindles raised 19mm, which is worth having IMO. They are a very tight fit for 15" Fuchs but doable.

The Pelican Forum search is horrible. Plain and simple. Use google, by putting this in the google search field:

site:forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/ kw v3

It will do wonders.

[Bli8]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

I have them and they are awesome. They have versions with the spindles raised 19mm, which is worth having IMO. They are a very tight fit for 15" Fuchs but doable.

The Pelican Forum search is horrible. Plain and simple. Use google, by putting this in the google search field:

site:forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/ kw v3

It will do wonders.

You are correct about the forum's search function as I just found many posts using other search methods.
I'm sure they tighten up the handling for sporty or track use, but do they also ride better in soft settings than OEM or Bilstein B6's?

[Steve W]

They are amazing. The adjustment range is way beyond what anyone could use. From super plush softer than Boge to teeth buzzing stiff. Even if you had the stiffest torsion bars, you'd still set them in the middle. They are noticeably shorter and combined with the raised spindle option you could lower the car way below Euro height and you'd still not hit the bump stops. If you combine them with the Rebel Racing RSR bushings, even if you install stiffer torsion bars such as 23/31s or 24/33s, the car will ride even smoother and more comfortable on the street than a stock suspension because of the elimination of the factory bushing friction, and the digressive valves and two way adjustability, you can match any spring rate and set to ride as you want.


You can spend a bunch of money on Bilsteins raising spindles, shortening them, custom valving, and you'd still not have what the KWs offer you. I like them so much I'd sell the modified Bilstein set on my other car to replace them. Anyways you can see them on my '86 if you're going to be running the POC San Pedro autocross tomorrow.


And regarding Rebel Racing, don't worry. Clint is slow because his parts and services are in demand more than he should handle but he will deliver.

[Arlo911]

I also run a set of V3's on my SC and have had KW suspension on 3 different BMW's. They ride a lot better than stock valved Bilsteins.
There are some people that question the strength of the shafts, they are not an upside down design as the Bilsteins, but if you want upside down design there is also the Clubsport version. Not cheap but they come with camberplates, are available with or without coilsprings, and raised spindles are also available.
Another downside might be the adjustability, best to let someone experienced set them up or keep track of the amount of "clicks" you adjust so you can revert back to standard settings if you need to.

[famoroso]

I have them on my '87 491 coupe, in conjunction with new rubber bushings and Eibach Anti-roll-kit. They are amazing!

I agree with everything that Steve Wong says above.

Without question, I'd install them again.

Raised spindle, double adjustable, digressively valved KW V3s, Eibach anti-roll kit, Elephant rubber bushings, ERP 935 spherical tie rod ends, etc, all assembled and dialed-in by Jae Lee. Taut and confidence inspiring, yet compliant enough (with compression and rebound both set about 1/3 of the way up from full "soft") so as not to offend. It's magical. Impressive, considering the 50+ year old suspension design...












Jae Lee / Mirage did a similar setup on my '88 491 cab, but with Bilstein B6 all around. That system is also very good and although it's a bit apples / oranges (different vehicle with a different purpose), I assure you that the KW setup is not only a different ballgame, but a different sport altogether.

Any G body I build going forward will have KW V3s. I've spent time talking to the guys at Makellos Classics and they are huge fans too.

[Fly911]

Question to Steve W and all suspension gurus:

What gives the best overall handling (road and track)?

With the KW V3's nearly unlimited adjustability, and limited (if any) adjustability on the torsion bars, and with adjustable sway bars, would a soft torsion bar set up give the best handling? Softer suspension absorbs bumps better, making better tire contact and less upset movement of the car.
Will a soft suspension set up in combination with a stiffer shocks and sway bar settings, be a smart move? Would a stiffer shock and sway bar set up compensate for the softer torsion bar set up on track and aggressive driving?
What is the ideal correlation between spring rates (torsion bars or coil overs) and the shocks compression and rebound rates?
And for limiting body roll, what would the best set up be, spring rates or sway bars?

My point here is that the spring rates (stiffness) on T-bars and coil springs are typically not adjustable, and shocks and sway bars are.

Anyone...???

[Bli8]

Originally Posted by Steve W

They are amazing. The adjustment range is way beyond what anyone could use. From super plush softer than Boge to teeth buzzing stiff. Even if you had the stiffest torsion bars, you'd still set them in the middle. They are noticeably shorter and combined with the raised spindle option you could lower the car way below Euro height and you'd still not hit the bump stops. If you combine them with the Rebel Racing RSR bushings, even if you install stiffer torsion bars such as 23/31s or 24/33s, the car will ride even smoother and more comfortable on the street than a stock suspension because of the elimination of the factory bushing friction, and the digressive valves and two way adjustability, you can match any spring rate and set to ride as you want.


You can spend a bunch of money on Bilsteins raising spindles, shortening them, custom valving, and you'd still not have what the KWs offer you. I like them so much I'd sell the modified Bilstein set on my other car to replace them. Anyways you can see them on my '86 if you're going to be running the POC San Pedro autocross tomorrow.


And regarding Rebel Racing, don't worry. Clint is slow because his parts and services are in demand more than he should handle but he will deliver.

I AM be at the autox now in the green RS. Will come looking for you after I finish eating my Burning Buns burger.

[CBA]

Bringing up an older post. Can these be installed on pre '74 cars? I'm not 100% sure what the differences are on the F Body cars versus the G Body's suspension wise.

Thank you

[H-viken]

Originally Posted by CBA

Bringing up an older post. Can these be installed on pre '74 cars? I'm not 100% sure what the differences are on the F Body cars versus the G Body's suspension wise.

Thank you

Shouldn’t be an issue for 69-73 cars

[Jonny042]

They work on any torsion bar 911.

I'd def. recommend going for the 19mm raised version, but be aware they will be a tight fit with 15" wheels. Totally worth it. Even with the 19mm raised spindles I had to use 42mm of shims on my bumpsteer adjustment:

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Just finished doing bumpsteer measurement and adjustment on the front end - been putting this off for a while but finally dug in.

What actually triggered the whole exercise is that I did a slight ride height adjustment in front, raising the ride height maybe 3/4". I measured the toe before and after and couldn't believe my eyes - I gained 3/16" of toe-in just raising the front that little bit!!

After finally settling on a front ride height of 151mm (measured the factory way but accounting for the 19mm raised spindles) I marked a line on the front bumper and backed the ride height adjustment so I could raise and lower the car around ride hieght and measure the toe changes.

I played with some pretty coarse adjustments and finally honed into doing 2mm of shim changes at a time. All I can say is WOW. A much smaller increment than I thought can make a measurable difference!!!











The picture above shows all the shims in place during one of the "extreme" tests. Ultimately I ended up with 42mm being the magic number for total spacer height. My final check was to run the suspension through 2-1/2" of travel (1-1/4 above and below ride height) and have no measurable difference in toe.

[CBA]

Thanks guys. Have them on my ‘90 and figure why not on my ‘73.

[mar2mar]

So with a bit of modifications, you can use the G-body version KW V3 with 19mm raised spindles on an F-body 911 w/ 15” wheels?

On their website I didn’t see a KW V3 for F-body with raised spindles.

[CBA]

Originally Posted by mar2mar

So with a bit of modifications, you can use the G-body version KW V3 with 19mm raised spindles on an F-body 911 w/ 15” wheels?

On their website I didn’t see a KW V3 for F-body with raised spindles.

Jonny042 has them installed on his backdate. You can read through his detailed build on his car. Yes they will go on a F-Bodied car. I was pretty sure but wanted confirmation and it has been confirmed.

[mar2mar]

Thanks CBA, This is on my wish list for my 70 911.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by mar2mar

So with a bit of modifications, you can use the G-body version KW V3 with 19mm raised spindles on an F-body 911 w/ 15” wheels?

On their website I didn’t see a KW V3 for F-body with raised spindles.

Wheels are the only consideration - I had to get pretty creative with a grinder in a few spots on the lower control arm to make it work with my 15" Fuchs. But totally worth it. And not a big deal.

In my opinion 90% of 911s out there are running on the bumpstops and raising the spindles can help gain much needed suspension travel.

I was really surprised by how much correction the bumpsteer needed on the car, see the long winded post above).

The combination of the KWs, raised spindles, and bumpsteer correction, mean the car is an absolute pleasure to drive. Like it was meant to be!

[Jonny042]

Further to above, from page 40 of the Project Heavy Metal build thread. I removed the hard plastic spacer above the bumpstop to gain even more travel out of the KW's (greater than the stock Bilsteins to begin with, but now 15mm more, plus the lowered spindles).

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Without actually handling the bumpstops tat came with the V3 it's hard to tell how tall their effective height is, due to the integral dust shield. The top of the green tape represents the bottom of the bumpstop.



There is a hard plastic spacer above the bumpstop, easily removed, to provide some much needed suspension travel:

[Jonny042]

As you can see the car sits relatively low but even at this altitude it has plenty of suspension travel. Our roads are not great, it doesn't care.

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Once in a while a picture captures the subject perfectly - this shot does just that, gives exactly the right perspective that truly is a representation of what the car looks like in the flesh:



It's got a great rear, too!!!

[Jonny042]

Also from the thread - when the car was set too low:

Originally Posted by Jonny042

I'm a huge fan of the KW's, they will be a part of any future builds I do. I can't say I've fiddled extensively with the damping, beyond chasing my tail a bit..... when I put the CN36's and Fuchs on the car looked a bit funny, too low in the rear and high in the front. Of course the 10 minute solution was to lower the front:



This setup left with only about 5/8" of free travel in front before hitting the bumpstops. Impressively enough I was able to tune out the resulting bounciness with the shocks, but it created some strange dynamic behavior.

Once the light went off and I actually checked the free travel I went to the trouble of raising both ends of the car and re-tuning the shocks based on a few drives on bumpy roads. I wouldn't say I've sharpened this to a very fine point but am a believer!

With the current setup (rubber stock bushings all around, SC sways front and rear, and 19mm/25mm torsion bars) the car absolutely devours large bumps and potholes and has great chassis control. The damping characteristics of the KW's are miles ahead of the bilsteins I have on the Rot Rod. In that respect the adjustable damping is not the only advantage.

Are they expensive? Hell yes, but a good value IMO. There are just so many possibilities and variables that you can choose with the 911, different weights and setups and spring rates, having the ability to truly dial the suspension in to your combination is a huge, rather than having to deal with a one-size fits all setup.

[Tremelune]

Originally Posted by Steve W

They are amazing. The adjustment range is way beyond what anyone could use. From super plush softer than Boge to teeth buzzing stiff. Even if you had the stiffest torsion bars, you'd still set them in the middle. They are noticeably shorter and combined with the raised spindle option you could lower the car way below Euro height and you'd still not hit the bump stops. If you combine them with the Rebel Racing RSR bushings, even if you install stiffer torsion bars such as 23/31s or 24/33s, the car will ride even smoother and more comfortable on the street than a stock suspension because of the elimination of the factory bushing friction, and the digressive valves and two way adjustability, you can match any spring rate and set to ride as you want.

This just cost me thousands.