My hotrod 911sc targa build. 3.0 ITB EFI

[Rivet]

I realized I never started a general project post after I started a post on the engine rebuild forum a couple years ago, HERE if anyone wants some background or details on the engine and some of my background in motorsports.

This has been a 3 year project. Not because it required that much shop time but because of the "Shoemaker's son always goes barefoot" syndrome.

I purchased an Arizona/Vegas area, running project and decent driver quality 1978 911SC Targa right at the beginning of Covid and enjoyed it immensely with the family until the first winter under my care where I discovered that it had quite a few broken head studs. These engines have my respect always, it ran like a top that first summer with almost no combustion chamber sealing.

And well being in the motorsports field professionally I didn't need much convincing to do a spicy engine rebuild and also use it as a test bench for products and general enlightenment.

It is now back on the road and has been for most of this spring and summer and has accumulated a little over a thousand miles. After two oil filter dissectings with clean results it finally made it on the dyno and I am pretty happy with the results considering it is a 3.0 and it has stock heads and valves, for now.

My future plans are to develop this engine a little further with intake and exhaust changes to find as much efficiency as possible and then develop my head porting program. I am fortunate as a shop owner to own two chassis dynos, flow bench and supporting tools.

I also have future plans to rebuild the chassis. I just need to finalize my realistic expectations so I can pick my chassis combination to suit, I have to remember that it is a Targa and I have to balance my wants with my family's comfort expectations to ice cream and coffee. The kids may, or may not have full harnesses in the rear jump seats...

It currently has stock torsion bars and it had fresh front end bushings when I bought it. I added mono ball upper strut mounts to allow more camber adjustability, Bilstein sport/hd combo shocks, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, 3.2 carrera sway bars, and a decent alignment. The rear trailing arm bushings are way due for replacement but it is not making metal on metal contact just yet.


I'll split this up in a few posts. But for now here are some photos.










These are the dyno charts, first one shows estimated crank hp and torque which I found Dyno Dynamics to have the math behind this feature to be pretty spot on.

Second chart shows wheel HP and torque. The important take is that a stock 78-79 3.0 CIS car makes approximately 147-155 wheel hp on my dyno for comparison sake.

[Rivet]

I have three combination of wheels and I am currently digging the front RSR finished 16x7 and 16x8 Minilites in the rear but I also have a full set of black 15" minilites that I am torn on. And I also have the matching 16x8 RSR finished rears kicking around.

I used some General Ultimax 205 and 225 width tires on the 15" Minilites as proof of concept before spending big money on Avon bias tires or TB15's but the cost of those tires is a hard pill to swallow.

I am also waiting on finding some 15x7 Fuchs for the front to match up to the 15" minilites rears as I do really love early motorsports cars and the ST is the pinnacle of cool to me.

[Rivet]

Some geek out on chassis setup and aero, etc. For me its all about tuning!

After 25 years of tuning everything from priceless carbureted and magneto fired antique race vehicles to compound turbo space ships and everything in between I have learned that there is ALWAYS something to learn and fully reaching what I call true motorsports enlightenment is a worthy path that most will never reach including myself as there is so much to learn!

For my car I ended up with 45mm RHD throttle bodies that mate with my large port heads, the very well made cam and crank trigger setup from Clewett, stock Porsche 996 Bosch fuel injectors (hard to beat OEM quality in todays injector market with exception to Injector Dynamics) with full injector characterization including an injector multiplier for non linear small PW, Fuel Lab 818 6 micron fuel filter, Radium fuel pulse damper on each fuel rail and a dual outlet Radium quick adjust fuel pressure regulator.

[froggert]

100 more hp over a stock 3.0? Really cool.

I had no idea there was a shop like yours in Berkeley Heights!

[Rivet]

Engine management wise after tuning so many different ecu/ems's over the years I found Maxxecu about 10 years ago and was blown away by its flexibility, logging, and fuel modeling. And especially its motorsports capabilities like power management.

Since then I have become almost exclusive to Maxxecu but I do still tune Motec, Haltech, Emtron and EMU from time to time.

I have it controlling twin plug coil on plug for the ignition side, a head temp thermocouple attached to cylinder 3, temp sensor on the breather cover, air temp sensor in air filter housing, oil temp and oil pressure sensor on the stock oil pressure switch location, two 4.2 lambda sensors one for each bank, a Bosch idle control valve, a Plex SDM200DLG display that feeds back vehicle ground speed from its on board 25hz GPS and 100Hz 6-axis Inertial data back to the Maxxecu via CAN.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by froggert

100 more hp over a stock 3.0? Really cool.

I had no idea there was a shop like yours in Berkeley Heights!

Thanks!

Full disclosure I am mostly a motorcycle shop, but since my personal specialty is tuning and I love Porsche I can't help myself!

Stop by anytime!

[Rivet]

I worked with Technica Race wire to fabricate a harness to my spec and to have future expandability as I play with stuff.

I have designed and fabricated harnesses in the past but am starting to learn that I need to improve my time management and Technica was a joy to use. Anytime I need another harness they will be my go to by far.

I spec'd the harness with a size 24 shell Amphenol "mil spec" connector and booted with Raychem 90 boot on the cabin side. Since I wanted to keep the rear seats and also wanted a fire wall quick disconnect I fabricated a firewall recess out of aluminum to take up the space of the 90's radius. The harness now runs parallel with the firewall and the rear seat backs are retained.

I could have 3d printed it as an easy way out but I wanted to retain a full and true fire proof/resistant firewall and plastic would not have kept that ethos. I did however use it to mock up some designs and after that proof of concept I got to work making it out of aluminum.

The push to connect fitting is there to provide the on board MAP sensor on the Maxxecu with the MAP signal from the intake.

I designed the recess with a plate that provides threaded inserts and the actual recess with the through holes for mounting along with fuel and oil rated, and high heat rated rubber gaskets on both sides to sandwich and seal the firewall access.

Please excuse the mock up phillips head hardware on the photos of the recess. I promise they where not permanent.

[MrBonus]

Great stuff!

If your name is Mike, icarp spoke highly of the tuning you do. The engine looks like a work of art.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

Great stuff!

If your name is Mike, icarp spoke highly of the tuning you do. The engine looks like a work of art.

That is me MrBonus.

Thank you for the kind words.

I had the pleasure of hosting Ian last year at my shop and we got Kermit on the dyno tuning his PMO carbs and 123 ignition to his at the time new motor combo. We had a GRAND time!

He is planning an east coast visit soon and is on the mend.

[Otter74]

That is a hot, hot car. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by Otter74

That is a hot, hot car. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Thank you Otter74!





Everyone loves dyno videos right?

I am mid processing some video from the first dyno session and figured I'd share an unedited loaded 2k to 7.5k rpm pull with a controlled ramp up as opposed to a Dynojet pure inertia pull.

You can see me start to roll the drum with no load up to 4th gear, roll into the throttle until the brake holds the engine at 2k rpm while I transition to full throttle. When I get to full throttle it will hold the start RPM until I am out of acceleration enrichment and the motor stabilizes and will then allow the motor to rev to the pre determined 7.5k rpm at a controlled rate of climb.

On this pull I am about 5.5 degrees of total timing away from what eventually made best power and about 6% richer than best power as I snuck up to find out what the engine liked and what RPM it made best power at. As the calibration got to its best power output the exhaust note started to get crisper and happier.

Pardon the 20k cfm exhaust fan and 70 mph air speed cooling fan noise in the video, after a few RPM you can hear the motor start to sing over the fan noise. I am looking forward to trying different exhaust configurations for both power increase and tone.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by froggert

100 more hp over a stock 3.0? Really cool.

I had no idea there was a shop like yours in Berkeley Heights!

I questioned my memory so you inspired me to go take a look at my data for a stock 911 sc. The RPM scale is different from my previous ones as it is using drum speed to engine RPM ratio conversion since the stock 911 does not have a CAN stream to take actual ECU rpm data from. It is offset by a couple hundred RPM at the end of the pull.

While it does not represent a true before and after as my personal car had broken head studs and I didn't want to do before pulls with compromised chamber sealing. Having some older pulls from another stock 911sc is cool to compare and to note the interesting differences in the shape of the curves and the extended useable RPM.

I honestly can not tell you if the stock SC represented on this graph was running 100% at the time of the pulls as this one was done with the dyno's previous owner on much older version of the software. I purchased it second hand awhile back and upgraded it to the newest standards. But one interesting note after that asterisk is that the chart shows the stock SC within 2 ft/lbs of torque from the Porsche documented 175 ft/bs.

I can definitely speak for the accuracy for it currently as it is confirmed calibrated and with the newest and current software from Dyno Dynamics.

[montauk]

Wow—beautiful work and spectacular results. I really like your choice to use the 996 injectors. That never even crossed my mind.
I’m running Bosch 280-155-831 injectors, and I didn’t realize how tough it would be to find reliable data until after I’d already bought them. I reached out to Haltech (I’m using their R3 ECU and PDU), but got no response—twice.
And guess who had the injector data? Maxxecu. That’s right—it was sitting in their files the whole time.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by montauk

Wow—beautiful work and spectacular results. I really like your choice to use the 996 injectors. That never even crossed my mind.
I’m running Bosch 280-155-831 injectors, and I didn’t realize how tough it would be to find reliable data until after I’d already bought them. I reached out to Haltech (I’m using their R3 ECU and PDU), but got no response—twice.
And guess who had the injector data? Maxxecu. That’s right—it was sitting in their files the whole time.

Thank you Montauk.

A lot of aftermarket injectors are modified versions OEM and they tend to be inconsistent. Unmodified OEM injectors are a great choice but the issue is that the injector data for them is proprietary to the manufacture that spec'd them from the Injector company. They can not share the data so the only other choice you have is dubious internet supplied, borrowing the data from various EMS repositories (that is a great "hack"), develop the data on your own (horrible to do, 10/10 don't recommend), or send the injectors out to someone that has the correct equipment to do so.

In my case I have someone I work with that invested in a Greg Banish designed (Calibrated Success) injector testing machine to output all the data. After going through its test sequence It will supply you with ecu specific injector latency, non linear pulse width multipliers, and flow for various voltages and pressures.

My thought process was that an easy to replace in the future (10, 20 years down the line), and an OEM level injector originally designed for essentially the same engine design was a smart move.

When in comes to needing a lot of injector my absolute go to is Injector Dynamics. Paul at ID is as brilliant as they come and supplies literally the best injector data possible. They have tested their injectors with a few choices of ECU's and supply EMS specific data as not all drivers inside the EMS units operate exactly the same so latency will be different between a Motec and a Haltech as an example.

One note about the Maxxecu data, their testing is done with e85 so the flow numbers will be a little different if you are using gasoline or gasoline with smaller amounts of ethonal.

[montauk]

Originally Posted by Rivet

Thank you Montauk.

A lot of aftermarket injectors are modified versions OEM and they tend to be inconsistent. Unmodified OEM injectors are a great choice but the issue is that the injector data for them is proprietary to the manufacture that spec'd them from the Injector company. They can not share the data so the only other choice you have is dubious internet supplied, borrowing the data from various EMS repositories (that is a great "hack"), develop the data on your own (horrible to do, 10/10 don't recommend), or send the injectors out to someone that has the correct equipment to do so.

In my case I have someone I work with that invested in a Greg Banish designed (Calibrated Success) injector testing machine to output all the data. After going through its test sequence It will supply you with ecu specific injector latency, non linear pulse width multipliers, and flow for various voltages and pressures.

My thought process was that an easy to replace in the future (10, 20 years down the line), and an OEM level injector originally designed for essentially the same engine design was a smart move.

When in comes to needing a lot of injector my absolute go to is Injector Dynamics. Paul at ID is as brilliant as they come and supplies literally the best injector data possible. They have tested their injectors with a few choices of ECU's and supply EMS specific data as not all drivers inside the EMS units operate exactly the same so latency will be different between a Motec and a Haltech as an example.

One note about the Maxxecu data, their testing is done with e85 so the flow numbers will be a little different if you are using gasoline or gasoline with smaller amounts of ethonal.

I didn't realize they tested with E85, thanks. I really should swap them out and go with ID injectors with good data. It's bone stock 3.0 and although I didn't do anything to get more power, it certainly feels quicker particularly once I get past 4000RPM or so. I need to bring it to you.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by montauk

I didn't realize they tested with E85, thanks. I really should swap them out and go with ID injectors with good data. It's bone stock 3.0 and although I didn't do anything to get more power, it certainly feels quicker particularly once I get past 4000RPM or so. I need to bring it to you.

Anytime you are ready just let me know, we will have a great time.

[rwest]

Hi Mike,

Slight thread hijack, but since you’re a dealer, hopefully it is okay.

I have a 2.7 with RS P&Cs, SC cams, PMO ITBS, EDIS and MS2. I am suspecting an issue with the MS2 ECU and besides it looking like an Heathkit, am thinking of doing COP and a different ECU. the MaxxECU seems like it might be a good option.

What do you suggest and can any of their ECUs be installed in the engine compartment where the CDI would have been? Do you supply a base tune with the units? Suggestions on COPs?

Thanks,
Rutager

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by rwest

Hi Mike,

Slight thread hijack, but since you’re a dealer, hopefully it is okay.

I have a 2.7 with RS P&Cs, SC cams, PMO ITBS, EDIS and MS2. I am suspecting an issue with the MS2 ECU and besides it looking like an Heathkit, am thinking of doing COP and a different ECU. the MaxxECU seems like it might be a good option.

What do you suggest and can any of their ECUs be installed in the engine compartment where the CDI would have been? Do you supply a base tune with the units? Suggestions on COPs?

Thanks,
Rutager

Rutager,

Sorry for the delay, I do not frequent the Pelican as often as I would like.

As with all electronics they do have an operating temperature range. A good rule of thumb is no more than 80-85 deg C. While having an ecu be in the engine bay will not see more than 120 deg F while running in most cases, heat soak when the engine is turned off can get quite toasty depending on environmental factors.

I think that any well built ecu living in the engine bay will not cause an immediate issue, but it will definitely affect the life span of the device. Most of our cars are not seeing daily duty so the chances of the ecu failing from heat soak during our personal ownership is slim but longevity will always be affected.

Yes I do supply a base calibration based on data I have with good cold start and warm start numbers and with the injectors, coils, sensors, triggers etc I recommend will be a great driving car as is, but it should be considered a calibration that will require adjustment for your particular application.

The Sport model and the Race model are my personal favorites depending on your input and output needs but all of their models are applicable with some flexibility. And my favorite coils to use for COP are Denso or NGK units from a Toyota. If more spark energy is needed for pretty high boosted applications the "red top" VAG coils are great. And for severe combustion chamber pressures an M&W CDI or IGN1A inductive smart coil.

[rwest]

Thanks Mike,

It would be so nice to have the brain close to the engine for shorter wiring etc (you would eliminate a connector). I may get a temperature data logger to see how hot it gets on the side during and after running and in the sun.

I’m still troubleshooting, but will likely get a hold of you for more info.

Best,
Rutager

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by rwest

Thanks Mike,

It would be so nice to have the brain close to the engine for shorter wiring etc (you would eliminate a connector). I may get a temperature data logger to see how hot it gets on the side during and after running and in the sun.

I’m still troubleshooting, but will likely get a hold of you for more info.

Best,
Rutager

I have been collecting data the same way Rutager, it is very interesting.

There are a lot of race cars kicking around with the old M84 Motec EMS mounted in that area of the engine bay and they are still kicking. I don't think it's a huge concern honestly but it is less than ideal.

There are a lot of CDI units still kicking after all these decades with some percentage of failures, I take that as a good example of what the lifespan of engine bay mounted electronics are.