Custom Builds of N/A 3.0L and up; Power/ Driving Improvement Impressions

[Gordo2]

Appears loads of people on the board have mixed and matched engine components to build a high output, normally aspirated motor.

Interested in feedback on 3.0L and up builds. Really would like a feel for the impact it has had upon how the car runs/drives (i.e. now a set you back in the seat screamer compared to stock).

Appreciate any quantifiable facts/figures as well:

- Shaved XX seconds off your reference track or run.
- HP/Torque output (however don't want to start another show me your dyno sheet thread, satisfied with raw #'s if you have them).

Thanks, Gordo

[A Quiet Boom]

174HP and 180ft lbs on a dynojet with some tuning left in it. Stock late model SC (smaller ports) stock cams, MSD ignition , backdated exhaust, and modified 36mm venturi Zenith carbs. The original Facet fuel pump is not big enough for my engines output and hurt the numbers somewhat with the A/F going toward lean near the end of each pull. I've since installed a Holley pump and regulator as well as fixed a leaky/worn throttle shaft. Still those numbers are approx 205 at the flywheel. I'm hoping to see 180-185 at the wheels next time I run it.

An early SC with the larger ports should pull even stronger.

[MBEngineering]

HI 3.0lt engine SC striped and worked on the ; heads, JE pistons, supertec head studs, supertec cylinders, supertec twin plug disi' PMO carb's and manifolds, SSI heat exchangers, STD back-box, Dougherty cams, 255 BHP 210 Ft.Lb torque at 5,300 RPM and climbing. regards mike.

[Gordo2]

Sounds like some great builds & #'s; appreciate if you could give some descriptive feedback on how the car drives with the increased output.

Looking for seat of the pants kind of stuff like: before the car didn't wake up until 3,500 RPM, now it runs like it was bit in the A$$ from 2,300 RPM up.

You know... the real reason to build in HP and torque - for pure driving fun

Feel free to be as creative in your desciptions as your vocabulary allows.

Thanks Again.

[A Quiet Boom]

Originally posted by Gordo2
Sounds like some great builds & #'s; appreciate if you could give some descriptive feedback on how the car drives with the increased output.

Looking for seat of the pants kind of stuff like: before the car didn't wake up until 3,500 RPM, now it runs like it was bit in the A$$ from 2,300 RPM up.

You know... the real reason to build in HP and torque - for pure driving fun

Feel free to be as creative in your desciptions as your vocabulary allows.

Thanks Again.

I went from a carbed 2.0 to the 3.0 in a car that weighs about 2000# with short gears, this line describes it well: "before the car didn't wake up until 3,500 RPM, now it runs like it was bit in the A$$ from 2,300 RPM up."

[MBEngineering]

HI the engine in the photos above was fitted last Thursday and the owner/driver had a bit of a fright when he drove the car on Saturday as the original engine he had to flog the guts out of it to get it to go , he went for a drive and though he would pass the van he was catching and forgot he was in 4th , eased the "gas" took off like a rat up a drain pipe, then realized what gear he was in was very impressed, and I will say the 911 has a short close ratio box with a max mph of 130 at 7000 rpm in 5th.

regards mike

[Facey]

hey, 3 experiences, 4th to come

first was a 2.7L based 3L. JE pistons (9.8:1), MSD, balanced, early sc heads, SSI's and a very free flowing muffler...- running on 5 cyclinders due to a faulty spark plug... dc40 cam, flowed CIS fuel head, car actually still went, just no really power increase after 5000rpm....then new spark plug felt like a wild crazy jump.....expecially after 5000rpm. still had to be revved to get moving really good.... car weighed in slightly under 2400lbs. hp is ball park, but something like 220..

then 3.5L, build off a 3.3L turbo case... 100mm Mahle P&C's, twin pluged VERY lagre port head. 46mm webers, inlarged manifolds, very high cr 11+:1. electromotive 6 coil, crank fire ignition. once again balances, crank was shotpeened... newer/better oil pump, forget which one.... B&B 1 3/4" headers with M&K muffler.... this is a real monster of a N/A f-6....

it is just finshed the break in stage, redline is still a conservative 7200rpm, with arp headtuds and rod bolts its safe for at least another 1000rpm....and power is deifently still rising...

as for seat up the pants its unbelieavble, acceleration is possible anywhere above 2000rpm... above 4000rpm its neck snapping...pretty easy to find yourself looking up at the ceiling.... the sounds in unreal...every track event i'm told its the best sounding car...... bruce anderson has this engine in his favorites list, and i believe he says 330hp, (310-330 or 330-350, i don't recal, but 330 was in there)..... with some new body work, wheels, and interior stuff car weighed in at 2332 with full gas tank and 11 litres of oil..... ITS FAST.... first gear feels useless short.... still have the longer r/p... don't plan on changing it, no need.

[shbop]

Gordo, I have plans for the same build. Of course just when I've settled on a plan, Mike posts the pics of his 3.0, and my mind goes back into overdrive. Beautifull motor! Mike, how much of the performance would you attribute to the increased compression? ie-- JE's, twin-plug. Which cam did you settle on? Thank you

[Gordo2]

Appreciate the driving impressions, keep them coming.

For Facey,

Is your 3.5 in a dedicated track car (race fuel) or a street ride on premium pump fuel?

Thanks again, Gordo

[JP911]

My 3.5 is based on a 78 3.0 (large port heads), uses a 930/Carrera crank and rods, ARP rod bolts and head studs, 964 cam (too mild), 100mm Mahle P/Cs (10:1), Eibach valve springs, GT3 RSR oil pump, twin plugged with 964 distributor converted to mech advance by Rennsport, factory CDI boxes and coils, 46mm PMOs, 993 heat exchangers, M&K and Triad mufflers. I have not dynoed the motor, but it has torque everywhere and pulls like a freight train on the track. The sound is incredible. I used the 964 cam as I was initially planning to use CIS. A change to a hotter cam is in order. I run this motor on 91 octane, but I do add in 100 at the track.

Plan for brake, suspension, and oil cooling upgrades for a motor like this. I hadn't, but ended up doing them in short order after the first drive.

A few people have asked if going the 3.6 route would be cheaper. My answer is that it might be at the outset, but with a fresh build you have a brand new motor and a very unique setup. Rdane (a board member who went from a 3.4 to a 3.6) commented that the 3.4 had a better "feel".

[rdane]

Jp is right. (and built an amazaing 3.5 engine) I had a 3.4 (98 x 74.4 for a 3.356 ) built from a '79 3.0 case and then later went to a 3.6. The 3.4 was more fun (revs and torque) than the 3.6 and had a lot of potential left in it if I had added a different injection sytem. Too many liabilities with either older or unproven technology of the 3.4 for a 100% reliable hot rod compared to a '95 3.6. The 3.6 is painless with all the new technology, lots of power and gets great gas milage.

But when measured by "fun" and character the 3.4 did have a those.
If I had to do it over I'd stick with the 3.4. Lots of reasons, exhaust, headers, (SSI) and heat being the quick ones.

The 3.4 was..
223 rear wheel HP @ 6100rpm
214 rear wheel torque @ 4100

Torque curve was dead flat between 4 and 6K. And a hoot to drive.
A search for 3.4 CIS under my user name will get you a lot of info on my 3.4. I also ran pump premium and mixed in 110 leaded race gas 25/75.

[Facey]

Originally posted by Gordo2
Appreciate the driving impressions, keep them coming.

For Facey,

Is your 3.5 in a dedicated track car (race fuel) or a street ride on premium pump fuel?

Thanks again, Gordo

it is a street car 99% of the time.
i have run 4 track events, just because i've found that this car is now WAY to fast for the street.... its less then 4 seconds of "fun" before its way to dangerous.....

best decision i've ever made... tracking is more fun then the street ever could be, and it has made me a better street driver.


as far as gas is concerned. here on vancouver island, b.c. , Canada, for w/e reason most gas stations carry a 95, 96, or 97 octance, and a few even have 98 but its ethanol addicitve...and i dunno about it, so i stay away.... each of these pumps has a decdicated pump for it, so there is no chance of ****ty gas, and many of the stations, at least the chevron i go to normally promises 96(+1,-0)...which means at worst it is 96..

however because i am not yet able to handle all this power ( not to boast, but a stock 930 does not keep pace even in a straight line) the timing is actually a little retarded..... like i said, the final tuning of this engine (to get all 330 horses or w/e) is due next summer, all i know it that i need to improve my driving before it'll (more power) make a differance.

[Gordo2]

Great stuff,

Followed Dane's build from start to finish. I'm a little less than a year away from moving back into NoVA - into my house with a garage that will give me the space to rebuild.

Greatly appreciating the feedback,

Gordo

[NY65912]

3.0 using JE 10:1 CR pistons in stock sleeves. DE-40 cams, Ti retainers and HP valve springs, 993 headstuds, ARP rod bolts on stock rods. 46mm PMO's, SSI's flowing thru a Monty, heads have been opened up a bit. MSD ignition. Big front mount cooler. 255hp at the wheels at 6500 rpm and it could go higher. With a 15% drivetrain loss.....300hp at the crank. Redline is set at 7000 rpm.

The SC weighs in at 2460 including a full cage. The car is a BLAST to drive! Throttle respone is immeadiate and pulls pulls pulls. The cams come on about 4300 rpm or so and then it's like it's really turned on.

I was a little apprehensive at first when we built this engine thinking that I really liked the low end torque of my 3.2 in my '85 TL but this 3.o screams and sounds like a pig lit on fire.

I love to drive this car....it's pretty uncomfortable on the street....full Elephant suspension with a lot of camber and big torsion bars, race seats, 6 pts and cage.....but it is all worth it due to the sound and the throttle. I can't keep my foot out of it.