LED Brake Lights

[scotricker]

Originally Posted by bugstrider

Did you do this so they automatically come on or do you just pull them on via the normal operation on the traditional headlight switch?


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On all the time. With my City Lights. Here is my post showing wiring:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/899788-running-park-lights-all-time-off-key.html

[DrChet]

Originally Posted by spoke

Bill,

This behavior is pretty common when the stock flasher unit is replaced by EP26. The issue involves the 4th terminal of the flasher and the way Porsche designed it back in the day. This may be your issue or not since I've seen all kinds of different wiring on 911's and 914's.

Explanation:

For some function or reason, Porsche designed the tachometer turnsignal indicators such that each one was tied to Left or Right turnsignal and the common between the 2 indicators was driven by the 4th terminal of the flasher usually called K, C, or C2.

See below schematic from a 914. Some 911 years are like this. Notice the common wire of the tach indicators goes back to flasher terminal K.





Now when you upgrade to exterior LEDs (mine or aftermarket units), the OEM flasher will hyperflash and can be replaced by EP26. EP26 does not drive the common wire to the indicators.

So what happens is when you put a turnsignal on, both dash indicators will flash at a low intensity and will lightly drive the opposite turnsignal LEDs like you have observed. Again, the dash indicators are driving the other side's LEDs since they are a very light load.

Notice how C2 on EP26 doesn't drive anything; it's an open circuit.



The solution for this is simple: Disconnect the common wire at the tach indicators (tape it up for safety) and add a pigtail to ground the common connection like shown below.

Spoke,

If I read the diagram correctly, could you also just move the Black/White common wire from the indicator bulbs that's connected to the EP26 flasher lead C2, put a jumper on the 31 lead and connect the wire to it?

It accomplishes the same thing as disconnecting the common wire and hooking up the new pigtail to ground. The only difference being the pigtail grounds to the tach lead vs grounding to the EP26's ground point.

I have not dove into the dash yet, so there may be an issue I'm missing. I bow to your electrical brilliance, so excuse my ignorance. You make fantastic products, having installed a full suite of your LEDs on my 914.

[spoke]

Originally Posted by DrChet

Spoke,

If I read the diagram correctly, could you also just move the Black/White common wire from the indicator bulbs that's connected to the EP26 flasher lead C2, put a jumper on the 31 lead and connect the wire to it?

It accomplishes the same thing as disconnecting the common wire and hooking up the new pigtail to ground. The only difference being the pigtail grounds to the tach lead vs grounding to the EP26's ground point.

I have not dove into the dash yet, so there may be an issue I'm missing. I bow to your electrical brilliance, so excuse my ignorance. You make fantastic products, having installed a full suite of your LEDs on my 914.

You are correct on the jumper between pins C2 and 31. I have done a similar mod for a 914 owner who needed C2 connected to 12V when the turnsignals are flashing like the OEM flasher does with C2.

Not all 911's need this mod. My '86 930 did not need this modification. I don't know which years/models have this but if your car has this connection, the mod is needed.

I have purchased a couple of EP26 flashers that I could modify to connect C2 to 31 if anyone is interested. This way you would not have to add the pigtail on the back of the tach.

I purchased these for $15 and modify them for $5 for a total of $20 + shipping.

[spoke]

Originally Posted by scotricker

On all the time. With my City Lights. Here is my post showing wiring:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/899788-running-park-lights-all-time-off-key.html

Scot,

Excellent modification to get full time running lights. Very straight forward.

You mention that the Euro park feature (running lights on when car is off and turnsignal stalk to right or left) was not functional. I wanted to understand this so I looked at the schematic for my '86 930.

Here's what just the running light power looks like from the factory. The light switch will turn on the running lights regardless if the car is on or off. Note when the car is off, there are extra contacts in the turnsignal stalk to power the left or right running lights. This is the Euro park feature.

[spoke]

This is Scot's mod. Very simple and to the point. The red wires are the wires to be added.

I'll be doing this to my car very soon. As Scot observed, because the wires to the turnsignal stalk are not used thus the Euro park feature is not functional. Ok by me as I never use that feature.

[spoke]

If the Euro park feature is desired with full-time running lights, the following mod would be necessary.

Like Scot's method, 2 wires are run from fuse F3 (Fuse box I) to F5 and F6 (Fuse box II) but the wires now have a diode in series. The diode keeps the Euro park feature from powering the car back through fuse F3.

[scotricker]

Cool ! thanks for the back up posting help.

[spoke]

I want to thank those who purchased LEDs during my 15% Christmas sale. I still have the sale on and will likely end March 1.

I've added EP26 LED-compatible flashers to the product list. These are modified to ground pin C2 which is sometimes used by 911s and 914s to drive the common connection of the tach turnsignal indicators.

Been busy working on new LEDs for Triumph Spitfire and TR6.

[Tony V]

Been reading about these things for too long.
Placed my order. Thanks!

[tobyp]

Placed my order last week. Ordered the front blinkers, complete rear set, EP26 flasher and the necessary diodes to keep my CC working properly (when I fix it) on my '89 Targa. Jerry was GREAT to work with. Anxiously awaiting the arrival of these parts.

Figured that I would go ahead and go full LED for the car, so I ordered the LED headlights from John Audette. Those should be here next week!

Only incandescent lights left on the car after I install all of this kit will be the interior light, the engine lid light, the front trunk light, the front side marker lights and the tachometer dash light (I had NH Speedo upgrade all other dash instruments with their LED lighting about three years ago). Looking forward to a much better-lit '89 Targa after all the upgrades. Thanks Jerry and John!!

Toby

[bugstrider]

PM and email sent. Just call me persistent.... or a pain in the arse. Both start with "P" and are synonymous. Lol

Cheers

Thanks for the reply via email

[ReconTrojan]

I got the full set of these LED lights and absolutely swear by them. The fit and brightness is without a doubt the best on the planet. Some people may think these are bit much money...until you see the level of craftsmanship and quality engineering. Tip of the hat!

Of course I had to upgrade my H4's to match the brightness after I turned them on.

[bugstrider]

Originally Posted by ReconTrojan

I got the full set of these LED lights and absolutely swear by them. The fit and brightness is without a doubt the best on the planet. Some people may think these are bit much money...until you see the level of craftsmanship and quality engineering. Tip of the hat!



Of course I had to upgrade my H4's to match the brightness after I turned them on.

Thanks for posting your pictures! This was the "nudge" I needed to replace my euro tail light lenses back to the U.S. all red lens. The red light real-estate is amazing.

2/24/17 update:

A full set of front DLR and rear marker/turn/brake lights, CC resistor and new relay ordered. Now need to order new lenses for our host. Flagged in my "project list". Took advantage of Spoke's sale that ends on 3/1/17.

Can't wait to get them installed. Maybe that will put a candle under my arse to get the suspension update completed. Man do I need a garage, this outside deal is for the birds.

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[spoke]

Folks have asked about making a front sidemarker board for the 911. I've looked at it before but the shape of the enclosure and angle of the bulb base just doesn't lend itself to a simple round board like the rear sidemarker.

I took another look this weekend after being reminded again. One of the big issues is fitment with the diffuser taking up valuable real estate in the housing.



When looking at the lens + diffuser, I realized the diffuser comes out very easily at least on my lenses. Without the diffuser I could easily install a board in the remaining lens.



The one issue with this is the remaining lens has no diffuser contour like the front turnsignal below has. If I was to make a front side marker, it would have to come with a diffuser. Without a diffuser, the PCB would be painfully visible and the LEDs wouldn't have as much dispersion as I would like.

Here's some diffuser sheet material available through Alibaba.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Led-lens-Light-Diffusion-polycarbonate-sheet_60568760295.html?s=p

Anyone know where I can get some diffuser sheet material?

[froggert]

What about the covers used on drop ceiling lighting? Should be available at Home Depot.

[Arne2]

It may be worth noting that those diffusers also serve as reflex reflectors. Generic diffuser material would likely not be reflective with the lights off. That may not matter to many people, but...

Another option if you don't care about the reflector bit would be to simply use another pair of turn signal lenses in place of the non-diffused lenses. Edit - except I'm not certain that those lenses are interchangeable. They look like they may be, but I've never checked that out.

[ReconTrojan]

Originally Posted by bugstrider

Thanks for posting your pictures! This was the "nudge" I needed to replace my euro tail light lenses back to the U.S. all red lens. The red light real-estate is amazing.

2/24/17 update:

A full set of front DLR and rear marker/turn/brake lights, CC resistor and new relay ordered. Now need to order new lenses for our host. Flagged in my "project list". Took advantage of Spoke's sale that ends on 3/1/17.

Can't wait to get them installed. Maybe that will put a candle under my arse to get the suspension update completed. Man do I need a garage, this outside deal is for the birds.

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Awesome! Glad to have helped......except I didn't get mine on sale grrrrrrr!

[spoke]

Originally Posted by Arne2

It may be worth noting that those diffusers also serve as reflex reflectors. Generic diffuser material would likely not be reflective with the lights off. That may not matter to many people, but...

Another option if you don't care about the reflector bit would be to simply use another pair of turn signal lenses in place of the non-diffused lenses. Edit - except I'm not certain that those lenses are interchangeable. They look like they may be, but I've never checked that out.

Good point about the OEM insert reflex reflectors. Maybe the Home Depot drop ceiling panel would reflect as well.

If the drop ceiling panel would work, how to cut it to size? I've cut plexiglass with my table saw but it was sketchy at best. I don't know anyone local with a CNC machine.

About the using the turnsignal lens with its lensing, the turnsignal lens is too long to fit. It's about 75mil too long. I checked a couple of times. Check out the pic above and you can see the right side edges are together but the left side of the turnsignal lens is a bit longer.

[Canada Kev]

We have established that the Euro cars have single filament bulbs on the front turn signals - signals only, no running lights - on post 447 on page 23. This is contrary to the North American spec cars that have the two filament signals so they can flash and also have running lights on the same light.

Now on the rear signals, are the US cars equipped with two filament bulbs like the fronts? That would mean that the rear signal lights are likely illuminated whenever the running lights are on and flash brighter, just like the fronts. That's the case, isn't it?

I'm asking because on the RoW cars, the rear signals are like the fronts where they flash only and are not illuminated when the running lights are on.

Do you offer your rear signal LED boards to work with the single filament bulb base like you do with the fronts?



Rear signal bulbs on a RoW car are single filament P21W or 7506 and functionally equivalent to the 1156.

[Arne2]

No, rear signals on US cars are only single filament, just like the RoW cars. The difference there is the red lens rather than amber.