LED Brake Lights

[spoke]

I'm redesigning the board to allow for 2 different patterns for white running lights depending on what type of lens you have or just your preference.

[JohnJL]

Lookin forward to this!

[spoke]

Originally Posted by john baldwin

6-ohm version and all is well. Holds up and down hills, disengages with both the lever and brake pedal and the car will resume speed by pushing the lever down.

John,
Thanks for the help, insight, and patience getting this right. It was your idea to mount the pigtail by the brake switch and it is absolutely the correct placement.

I would like to test this out with someone else now. If anyone has LED brake lights and your CC isn't working, please give me a shout out. I'd like to send you a pigtail to try out.

A solution working on one car is great but we've seen time and again just as we thought we had a solution, it fails on another car.

[dyerkes]

My CC on my 1987 911 is having sporadic issue where it kicks off without explanation (didn't do this before installing LED's), so I would be happy to test out the pigtail.

Thanks,
David

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by spoke

What would we see in operation in this case? Let's assume the right turnsignals are selected. The right exterior LEDs would flash normally as expected.

However, the 2 tach indicator bulbs in series would have 12V on one side and the left exterior LEDs on the other side. As the right side LEDs flashed normally, the left exterior LEDs would flash very lightly as would both L and R tach indicators will flash gently.

Thank you for that clear description. I am doing my own LED upgrades and such, and did put an EP26 flasher unit in the car, without grounding it (basically, to see what would happen, since I knew the ground was needed). You described the situation perfectly, so now I know that it is just the ground point, and not something else going on. So many lamps were doing so many strange things, I was concerned that I had a failed ground somewhere else and had voltage leak to the lightbulb wiring. Decoding what happens in the wiring with the LED relay is not trivial, since it acts like a "black box" inside the relay.

[spoke]

Originally Posted by dyerkes

My CC on my 1987 911 is having sporadic issue where it kicks off without explanation (didn't do this before installing LED's), so I would be happy to test out the pigtail.

Thanks,
David

Thanks David,

I'm sending a pigtail to you today. Make sure the resistors are on the side of the connector with the black wire with yellow stripe. The I-loop side of the resistors go to chassis ground. I've included a couple of tie wraps to secure the resistors to a support beam or something similar. I would avoid securing the resistors to any wiring as the heat from the resistors could adversely affect the wiring.

The resistors are 12 ohm, 50W, connected in parallel to give equivalent 6 ohms. 6 ohms across 12V will burn 24W which is equivalent to a standard brake or 3rd brake bulb.

2 resistors in parallel are used to handle the power when the driver is sitting on the brakes. 24W power dissipation is huge and will generate a lot of heat. 6 ohm, 50W resistors are commonly used with LED turnsignal conversions to keep the OEM flasher happy although for turnsignals power is on these 6 ohm resistors for 1/2 of the time.

[RDM]

Originally Posted by RDM

Spoke,

What I'd like is a white LED for the right side reverse light and a red one for the left to serve as a foglight. Can you make a mixed set like that? It would save me drilling holes in my bumper.

The idea came from a thread here on the board....

Originally Posted by spoke

This can be done. We can put white, red, amber in the reverse light board.

I just got the first PCBs and built one to try on my car. Here's what the board looks like.

This is in the process of happening now. If you want to see a new application of SpokeBoards... or just have some wisdom to offer
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/924740-rear-fog-light-install-new-approach-some-help-needed.html

[JohnJL]

Whats up with the black and green wires? I just got my brake lights and am installing now...is the black wire knotted at the ends through the board a "handle" to pull them out later, or do they need to be tied into the plastic frame?

[spoke]

The wires are just for handling the boards. If the board goes in crooked, the wires allow you to pull the board out easily. The wires are also useful if the boards need to be removed. Once installed, just push the wires in towards the board as much as possible.

[Lake Guy]

Spoke - I just sent you a PM.

Mark

[spoke]

I finally finished the '69-'73 front turnsignal board. Should have boards in hand in a week.

As detailed a few posts before, these can be all amber, or white running LEDs and amber turnsignals where the white LEDs can be in 2 rows at the bottom or top of the turnsignal or all bunched together towards the inside of the car.

The white running lights will turn off when the turnsignal on that side is active and turn back on when the turnsignal goes off.

Prices will be $125 for all amber and $145 for white/amber.

[Taxi!]

So after getting Spoke's LED brake lights when he first offered them and then failing to honor his extremely reasonable request to send him a picture, I ordered his rear turn signal and side marker boards. I also planned to replace the tail lights lenses with something a little different. (Yes, I know clear lenses technically aren't legal blah, blah, blah).

For a couple of reasons I ended up also replacing the tail light housings with plastic versions from Sierra Madre, and the new housings weren't equipped to use the side marker lights so I couldn't use Spoke's lights. But the turn signals went in okay and, as expected required a new flasher. But I finally got everything buttoned back up after also replacing the center reflector and am finally providing pictures for Spoke's benefit.

As far as I'm concerned, Spoke is my hero for offering a cost-effective (i.e. no Porsche tax) modern improvement for my car that helps its visibility on the road.

[zippy_gg]

The reason I bought them:

Now, with lights off:


When lit:

The lights are actually bright red and not yeallowish as in the picture
The installation was a piece of cake!
The backup lights and stop lights are so bright!
I couldn't be happier.

I also upgraded the cyclop eye on the cab but the light stopped working after successful testing, even after I reinstalled a regular incandescent bulb. Electrical troubleshooting coming up next.

[ReconTrojan]

Well, placed my order for a full set today. Hoping it all works out.

[RSBob]

Spoke makes excellent products with great illumination. For those on a budget, SuperBright LEDs makes an alternative product at a lower price point. They are dual LED brake and running LEDs. https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/tail-brake-turn/1157-led-bulb-dual-function-27-smd-led-tower-bay15d-retrofit/2625/5698/ which I installed in my 914 (no cruise control) and work great. They are quite bright but don't have Spoke's full coverage look. They appear more like very bright incandescent bulbs, more retro, not as modern. They also offer resisters which may help for cruise control users, but have not verified. Without the resistors I can tell you as a fact (tried them on my SC) cruise is disabled. The pigtail solution above may provide the feedback which cruise needs, but again, unverified. What SuperBright does not offer are Spoke's totally cool hand made, custom boards with various options. Now back to your regularly scheduled program already in progress.

[boxcarracer]

Absolutely love full spokeworks package and how it really makes the car stand out in the evening.
I wish I could capture it properly in a photo, but here's one of my favorites.

[spoke]

Originally Posted by RSBob

They also offer resisters which may help for cruise control users, but have not verified. Without the resistors I can tell you as a fact (tried them on my SC) cruise is disabled. The pigtail solution above may provide the feedback which cruise needs, but again, unverified.

After working with some folks here, we've found the maximum ballast resistance to satisfy the 1989 911 CC is somewhere less than 10 ohms. Thus 6 ohm ballast resistor will satisfy the CC ECU.

From SuperbrightLEDs, here's a typical 6 ohm, 50W pigtail designed to alleviate hyperflashing when changing turnsignals to LED. You simply crimp these on to the bulb wires.



Can this pigtail be used for the brake light to satisfy the CC? The answer is: "It depends"

It depends if you mount the resistor securely on a part of the vehicle chassis to act as a heat sink. Putting 6 ohm resistor across battery voltage like when you put your foot on the brake will burn:

14V x 14V / 6 ohm = 32.7W

These resistors are rated for 50W if the resistor is connected to a heat sink. If the resistor is not connected to a heat sink (or vehicle chassis as a heat sink) then it's power must be derated to 40% of maximum or 20W.

20W is less than 32.7W so one resistor will get extremely hot when on brake and possibly destroy itself. If one puts two 12 ohm resistors in parallel, then each resistor burns 16.3W and should be ok.

For turnsignals, this one 6 ohm resistor is ok because turnsignals are on only 1/2 the time when flashing thus burning 16.3W and should be ok w/o a heat sink.


One thing I'm not a fan of with these crimp-on resistors is the fact you have to damage vehicle wiring to install. Not a big deal but I try to make every solution such that no permanent vehicle mods need to be done to install.


As previously shown in this thread, the pigtail I would suggest would simply connect between the brake master cylinder brake light switch and its plug. The pigtail uses two 12 ohm resistors in parallel to share the power dissipation and heat.

If you're ok with a crimp tool, you can easily make this pigtail. Resistors can be purchased online from places like Digikey and Mouser. If you would like to purchase the pigtail, we'll make them available for $20 each.

[spoke]

Originally Posted by ruiandy

Are yours really not for road use? Are they just too bright to be legal? Or is that just a disclaimer.

Just a disclaimer. I've changed the verbage to read: "For Aftermarket Use. May not comply with SAE or US DOT Standards"

As far as how bright they are, I haven't measured light output of these solutions with everyday cars but I can say that many cars that I've been behind in traffic have very bright standard bulb or LED lights. If anything, these solutions bring our 911's lights on par with today's cars.

[jlex]

May want to change that to "for offroad use"....

[bugstrider]

Is this really an issue??? Limited light output from the factory OEM lights. The brighter the better, visibility is always a good thing for today's distracted drivers. I understand the rules regarding headlights though. Headlights are more critical but tail lights and brake light intensity less critical.

Having been hit from the rear and dodging critters on a dark two lane road, I'm in the "more light the better camp"

I see a full LED set upgrade in my future. Keep it coming Spoke

Cheers


Sent via Jedi mind trick by the cat