my low budget dream car build

[MFX]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

I agree the ITBs make a lot of noise on a road trip. Do you have room to put a 964/993/996 manifold over the top of them? The difference in throttle response is negligible, but the gain in mid-range and reduction of noise make it worth the effort/expense. If I find myself considering ITBs again, they'll be fitted under the 964 manifold I have now for those reasons.

.

I have been looking into my options and I do have a dead Boxster engine sitting around that I could butcher the manifold from. That said, I am thinking of building a full custom inlet manifold to sit over the ITB's and combine into a pod filter.... Just another job to add to my growing list of projects

[Showdown]

Someone here took an old plastic carb plenum and modified it to fit a set of EFI ITBs with what seemed like minimal effort to both conceal the ITBs and potentially help with balancing airflow. I can’t recall who it was but it was pretty neat and had me thinking about doing something similar.


https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/925845-post-your-itb-setup-26.html#post11909243

Then there’s also the debate about performance gains from a common plenum (you know, if you like reading internet debates without data )

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1079813-plenum-vs-trumpets-itbs.html

But I like the ITB noise. It’s the wind that kills me.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by MFX

I have been looking into my options and I do have a dead Boxster engine sitting around that I could butcher the manifold from. That said, I am thinking of building a full custom inlet manifold to sit over the ITB's and combine into a pod filter.... Just another job to add to my growing list of projects

A life I know very well.
As always, I look forward to what you come up with.

Originally Posted by Showdown

Someone here took an old plastic carb plenum and modified it to fit a set of EFI ITBs with what seemed like minimal effort to both conceal the ITBs and potentially help with balancing airflow. I can’t recall who it was but it was pretty neat and had me thinking about doing something similar.


https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/925845-post-your-itb-setup-26.html#post11909243

Then there’s also the debate about performance gains from a common plenum (you know, if you like reading internet debates without data )

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1079813-plenum-vs-trumpets-itbs.html

But I like the ITB noise. It’s the wind that kills me.

Oh buddy, that second one devolved rapidly.
I do like the look of the first, but not for my car.

Also, all of this reminds me I need to change the resonance flap opening RPM from 5500 to 5000. Gotta remember that when I get out of work.

[MFX]

Originally Posted by Showdown

Someone here took an old plastic carb plenum and modified it to fit a set of EFI ITBs with what seemed like minimal effort to both conceal the ITBs and potentially help with balancing airflow. I can’t recall who it was but it was pretty neat and had me thinking about doing something similar.


https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/925845-post-your-itb-setup-26.html#post11909243

Then there’s also the debate about performance gains from a common plenum (you know, if you like reading internet debates without data )

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1079813-plenum-vs-trumpets-itbs.html

But I like the ITB noise. It’s the wind that kills me.

There is some interesting reading there. That second one seemed to devolve quickly. As mentioned in that thread, ITB's have basically no plenum, I am just looking at building an inlet to a filter, something like the old MFI inlet top, so I can aim the filter rearward and hopefully direct the induction noise away from the cabin. No idea if it will help, but it is worth a shot.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by MFX

There is some interesting reading there. That second one seemed to devolve quickly. As mentioned in that thread, ITB's have basically no plenum, I am just looking at building an inlet to a filter, something like the old MFI inlet top, so I can aim the filter rearward and hopefully direct the induction noise away from the cabin. No idea if it will help, but it is worth a shot.

Certainly worth a shot.
I'd like to redo my air inlet, but I have yet to come up with a rain-resistant approach.
No shortage of small projects with these old cars when you want more from them than just sunny Sunday rips.


SPEAKING OF SMALL PROJECTS

I did remember to change the resonance flap actuation RPM. :winning: :tigerblood:

And then this morning, I changed out the blue WEVO inserts for black. Night and day difference in NVH with no discernible increase in engine movement. Big win for <$50.

I brought the stuff with me to work to paint the window frames. I'd be out there now, but it's ~50*F right now and I reckon it needs to warm up a smidge more before I take on that project. Once we get the first appointment of the day out of here, I can probably sneak the LBDC into the shop and paint in a more controlled environment. :fingerscrossed:

[chrisbalich]

Despite my heightened malaise towards actually working on my car, I have managed to get a few things done of late.

Last Saturday, Kelly and I went to MD's place and I worked on his car as the third installment of Ruchlos Rallye looms ever nearer. MD has had a very busy 2023 and his car has paid the price of negligence for it. So we got up early and trekked two hours or so into Ohio to help a brother out. That same Saturday, I had tickets to see a punkrock show in Louisville. So after leaving MD's place, Kelly and I hot-footed it from Cinci to Louisville. (another 2 hours) Jupiter Hearts opened and they were fantastic. Their singer/frontman is Rob Pennington of ENDPOINT, By The Grace of God, and various other bands.
Jupiter Hearts


A local band called S*itfire played second. It's good to see new music and although I'd never heard of them, they were pretty good. Their singer was giving off strong Brody Dalle meets Stevie Nicks vibes. Musically, they varied pretty vastly from chuggy drop-E mosh-a-thons to very uptempo chaotic noise. (I didn't take any pics.)

The headliner, and reason we were there, was Guilt. Guilt was a Louisville hardcore band when I was in high school. Duncan, their singer, was the guitarist for ENDPOINT and BTGOG. (previously mentioned) Listening to Guilt always felt like reading someone's diary. I didn't take any pictures of the set because I was reliving my teens and screaming my head off. I did grab a pic of the set list. (I later got the whole set list to accompany the one-of-25 limited edition LPs also available only at the show.)


We got home late AF that night. Sunday, we got up early to hit breakfast before I drove an hour west to visit Corey (who has two G-body 911s and two 914s) who sold my friend Josh two type 4 motors. I also test-fit an Autopower roll-bar in the LBDC, but didn't like the way it fit. So I'll be making one from scratch at some point in the future. When I got back from Corey's, I feel asleep watching YouTube and then drove Kelly over to Jake & Quinn's so the ladies could go see Grease in the theater. Jake and I elected to walk a nine-hole par 3 course instead of letting me rest.

Monday, I installed a sticker that MD had given me. I'll let you all guess which one is the new one. Four of the stickers in this picture are from MD.


MD sent me home with something else that Saturday. It took a couple days before I pulled them out, but I did eventually try them on the car.



They're a set of 17" Augment Wheels from MD's "Evil Canary". He's gone back to 16" Fuchs, so these have been just taking up space in his garage. I'm not 100% sold on them just yet, but there is still some hope of them working on the LBDC. My friend Bryan did a quick photoshop for me as a sort of proof of concept.


They'd have to be refinished if I buy them. I'm unsure about a color scheme beyond 'all black'. Thoughts?

I met up with a friend at Bottleworks in Indy this week. So I had my own reincarnation of Luft 7.


I've been driving to work with the laptop open all week trying to smooth out 1200-2000rpms at almost no throttle. (like cruising through a neighborhood at 20-25mph)
And this morning I installed the new WEVO inserts as mentioned in a previous post.

I did one more project today.



No more shiny window frames.
After a couple hours to dry, I put the lower trims and mirrors back on and rolled the car out into the sun for some UV curing.


That pretty well brings us up to speed. I'm getting the tires put on tonight or tomorrow because I'm planning to take the 911 to MD's this Saturday to finish the suspension overhaul on the Evil Canary...and do another shortish shakedown roadtrip in my car.
After all that, I only need an oil change before RR3...and maybe one more sneaky sneaky if I can align some schedules...

[ADDvanced]

Blackout window trim is a huge improvement, looks awesome! Idk about those new wheels either; fasteners on the current wheels work with the door pulls and rear end, etc.

As for your NVH battle, do you have a headliner yet? My targa seals leak everywhere and is definitely not quiet but still fine on the freeway, even with monster exhaust. I still have factory carpet/sound deadening, but my engine pad is a simple adhesive butyl rubber pad. I'm just wondering if that composite roof is attenuating road noise somehow or something.

[chrisbalich]

No headliner at this time.
The FG roof is definitely quieter, and cooler, than the steel roof.

[$yncro]

Again.. very nice. Well done sir.

[Gonbad]

Chris,

What did you use to blackout the trim?

[ryanjboutin]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

They'd have to be refinished if I buy them. I'm unsure about a color scheme beyond 'all black'. Thoughts?

I vote all black if you buy them.
Maybe in satin finish, to match all the rubber trim and window trim.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by $yncro

Again.. very nice. Well done sir.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Gonbad

Chris,

What did you use to blackout the trim?

SEM Trim Black
I'm pretty sure I got it on Amazon.

Originally Posted by ryanjboutin

I vote all black if you buy them.
Maybe in satin finish, to match all the rubber trim and window trim.

I'm thinking satin centers and gloss lips. But I have considered satin dark grey centers with gloss black lips. Honestly, I think that's the way to go. Still mulling it over.

[Showdown]

At the risk of starting something, I’d love to see the LBDC with something like these in all black


Muahahah!!

[chrisbalich]

OMG, Julian. Detroit Steels weigh so much!
If I could fit 16s, we could discuss some Mooneyes Smoothie Discs. (think Bonneville racer)
Or we can discuss turbo-fans over my CCWs.

[Showdown]

Just have them made out of aluminum and carbon fiber and then cerakote them all black, duh…

Turbo fans in all black would be *****in’ for sure.

[chrisbalich]

It's Monday again, so let's have a little story time.

Saturday, I got up early and trekked back to Cincinnati to help MD get his SC back on the road.


I got there a little before 0800 and we got finished a hair before 1800. We did stop for lunch and made one trip to ACE for a carbide bit and a file. Normally, swapping front shock inserts and installing RSR bushings wouldn't take 10 hours. But MD's car has been in a front-ender at some point in its past, so it wasn't as straightforward as we'd hoped. We got 'er done and celebrated with ice cream.


Ice cream place parking lot stuntin (on those fools)


I left directly from ice cream and got home @2032. I beat Apple Maps by 10 minutes, so you know I was getting after it. That new tallboi 5th gear is awesome for chewing up freeway miles.

Sunday, we got up medium-early for breakfast, picked up some 'potting mix', and headed back home. Kelly had some unkempt bush she needed removed, so I engaged the U in SUV.


With the bushes (SHRUBBERY!) removed, I was left to my own devices whilst she stabbed plants into the ground. First order of business was to turn some Delrin washers for my rearview mount. The rearview is affixed with four riv-nuts into the forward header. The riv-nuts are narrower than the rearview bracket and the rearview was prone to vibrating* at certain RPM. *Visibly, not audibly.
So I whipped up some washers and stuck em in.


I'm happy to report that the lion's share of the bad vibes are a thing of the past.

My most recent iteration of the door-release push-buttons has had mixed results. Kelly's side works brilliantly, but sits a bit crooked. My side works acceptably, sits correctly, but occasionally would not 'spring' back out after pressing it. Off to the hardware store I went. I pulled off my button and took it inside to see if I could match up a compression spring. Lo and behold...


Much happier with how things are working. I also trimmed Kelly's side a trifle so it nests better in the base and sits less crooked. #results

With springs on my brain, it occurred to me to try using a spring elsewhere to solve another [very minor] issue. The new FG decklid is so light that it bounces around a bit more than the steel one did. (which was zero) Rather than fit the latch mechs or drill holes in the decklid for [visible] Quik Latches, I opted to try using extension springs where the factory gas-shocks went. My thinking is that I don't need a lot of force to hold it down, so let's try a little tension. Some throttle return springs I had on-hand fit the bill and allow full ROM, so that's what I've got in there right now. I'll mess with spring combinations and stop-bumpers heights until I'm happy or devise a clever alternative. I can tell you already that the springs work better than nothing.


No pics, but EFI content inbound.
I've spent a lot of time this month battling jerkiness at very low throttle input and RPMs ranging 1000-2800. I found I was able to add a little timing and fuel and smooth it out above 2000. But no amount of timing or fuel would smooth it out between 1000 & 2000. I knew my AFRs/Lambda was well within tolerance and could not for the life of me figure it out and then it hit me like a ton of bricks. Injection timing. I last addressed injection timing months ago and have since made many small tweaks to the VE & IGN maps. Let's revisit injection timing. Dialed back the injection timing from 1000-2000RPM and it smoothed out the Lambda readings and eliminated the jerkiness. Super stoked! So I'm revisiting injection timing across the entire map to try to dial this in. I feel like I'm running in circles, but I am making progress. It's this fun cross between circling the drain and homing in.
#kaisawheel

[lateapex911]

Originally Posted by MFX

There is some interesting reading there. That second one seemed to devolve quickly. As mentioned in that thread, ITB's have basically no plenum, I am just looking at building an inlet to a filter, something like the old MFI inlet top, so I can aim the filter rearward and hopefully direct the induction noise away from the cabin. No idea if it will help, but it is worth a shot.

So, induction noise is one of those things that can be altered, I think, depending on the shape and size etc of the housing. The filter can affect it too. Often you see little added mini volumes attached to change the resonance. I've often thought about experimenting, but yea, as you say, too many projects already.

And if you are changing the resonance, I have to think the power curve can be affected as well.

The other factor is looks. Carbs and ITBs are eye candy to me, so I'd want something that keeps the sight lines as open as possible.

How effective is the firewall and rear shelf insulation on your car?

[TeeJayHoward]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Rather than fit the latch mechs or drill holes in the decklid for [visible] Quik Latches, I opted to try using extension springs where the factory gas-shocks went.

I know it REALLY doesn't fit the ethos of this build, but man, those Rennline mechanical shocks are incredible. They work exactly as well as you'd think they would. If you end up unhappy with the spring solution, do give them a thought!

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by lateapex911

So, induction noise is one of those things that can be altered, I think, depending on the shape and size etc of the housing. The filter can affect it too. Often you see little added mini volumes attached to change the resonance. I've often thought about experimenting, but yea, as you say, too many projects already.

And if you are changing the resonance, I have to think the power curve can be affected as well.

The other factor is looks. Carbs and ITBs are eye candy to me, so I'd want something that keeps the sight lines as open as possible.

How effective is the firewall and rear shelf insulation on your car?

I agree that ITBs/carbs look 100x better when you lift the decklid. But there are trade-offs. I've discussed going back to ITBs, but I believe if I did, I'd use the 964 intake on top of them to try to retain as much tq as possible and mitigate the wonderful howl they make. (at cruise moreso than WOT)

Originally Posted by TeeJayHoward

I know it REALLY doesn't fit the ethos of this build, but man, those Rennline mechanical shocks are incredible. They work exactly as well as you'd think they would. If you end up unhappy with the spring solution, do give them a thought!

I have carbon fiber prop rods front & rear, so the Rennline mechanical shock wouldn't solve the 'problem' I have. I was 100% ok not securing the steel decklid in the down position because it never moved. The FG decklid tends to bounce a bit more, so I'm keen to hold it down, not up.

[jac1976]

Originally Posted by ryanjboutin

I vote all black if you buy them.
Maybe in satin finish, to match all the rubber trim and window trim.

Satin dark gray centers with gloss dark gray lips.

Satin body color centers with gloss body color lips or the reverse.

Satin body color centers with satin black lips.