molested 69S ??

irl · irl's Garage

I found a badly molested 69S and Im wondering what its worth. It has a clean newer 70T engine, whale tail, bad repaint, lots of wierd ugly updated stuff. I know rust from another rebuild I'm into and its minimal here. But to bring it back even keeping the existing engine It would cost to get it back, its ugly. Should I be jumping to get the original S body to work with or bail. They are asking 15K.

calling911 · 12-28-2006, 09:19 AM

pics?

You are buying a tub if the tub is good as you say. A good S tub with all guages and misc infrastructure is worth $6-9k.. I'd add up sales of the the other stuff and it add it to that. If the motor has any paperwork or a good leakdown it might not be too far from right. Better make sure the tub is solid though.. check with a sharp implement!!!!!!!!

Todd Simpson · 12-29-2006, 03:40 PM

I wonder if it's priced at 15K because of all the "updates" or because they know it's an S?

If it had the original motor I'd say go for it.

calling911 · 12-29-2006, 03:59 PM

I've seen bad early S's on ebay go for $20k.

Monza_dh · Monza_dh's Garage

There was a '68S listed on the NE PCA sight in fair shape for 9K. Matching numbers, red, fuchs, etc

calling911 · 12-30-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monza_dh
There was a '68S listed on the NE PCA sight in fair shape for 9K. Matching numbers, red, fuchs, etc

That's because there was no '68 S.. unless its black market.. none were made for the US.

pu911 · 01-05-2007, 07:40 AM

68 S are still worth a lot, that fact that they were never imported is irrelevant to value. What is you intention for car if it is to return to a stock 69 S than just go buy decent 69 S which can be done for less than 30K if you keep your eyes open. Correct and nice S's are selling for pretty strong money these days 45-70K but it will take at least that much money to bring a piece of crap up to that standard and when your done you still don't matching number motor. The question to ask is would you rather have a T with an S motor or a S with a T motor they are both worth about the same.
Phil

calling911 · 01-05-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pu911
68 S are still worth a lot, that fact that they were never imported is irrelevant to value. What is you intention for car if it is to return to a stock 69 S than just go buy decent 69 S which can be done for less than 30K if you keep your eyes open. Correct and nice S's are selling for pretty strong money these days 45-70K but it will take at least that much money to bring a piece of crap up to that standard and when your done you still don't matching number motor. The question to ask is would you rather have a T with an S motor or a S with a T motor they are both worth about the same.
Phil

Few things.. my point: its probably not an S.. 68s is rare here EXTREMELY rare and worth a ton of money... for $9k you are not buying a 68s unless the thing is full of rust on suspension points.

A T with an S motor will never sell for anywhere near $45k.. maybe $25k at the very most unless the buyer is pure ignorant.

pu911 · 01-05-2007, 08:25 AM

JP,
I am not claiming that S with a T motor is worth 45K. All I am saying is a T with an S motor is worth about the same as an S with a T motor about 15-25K unless car is exceptional. There were 1700 68 911 S's built and yes they were never officially imported into the US but tons of "grey" market cars were brought into the US in the mid 80's. RS's were never sold here either but they are all over the US. I can't vouch for the authenticity of the car mentioned above, couldn't locate ad. For 9k it was a pile of garbage or a screaming deal.
Phil

calling911 · 01-05-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pu911
JP,
I am not claiming that S with a T motor is worth 45K. All I am saying is a T with an S motor is worth about the same as an S with a T motor about 15-25K unless car is exceptional. There were 1700 68 911 S's built and yes they were never officially imported into the US but tons of "grey" market cars were brought into the US in the mid 80's. RS's were never sold here either but they are all over the US. I can't vouch for the authenticity of the car mentioned above, couldn't locate ad. For 9k it was a pile of garbage or a screaming deal.
Phil

Whoops.. I didnt see the S with a T motor.. my apologies.. yes, right on.. agree totally.

jkarolyi · 01-05-2007, 10:44 AM

90% of the difference between a T and an S is the motor. You could order all the other S features on the T. Without the engine, the car really isn't worth much more than a T. If you could find a '69 S engine, now that's another matter...

Pass on the car at anything less than $5000.

calling911 · 01-05-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jkarolyi
90% of the difference between a T and an S is the motor. You could order all the other S features on the T. Without the engine, the car really isn't worth much more than a T. If you could find a '69 S engine, now that's another matter...

Pass on the car at anything less than $5000.

Lots of T's come with the S options but I would not say the motor is 90%..

Early S's have the following:
S Deco
- rocker deco
- Bumper deco is bigger
Front spoiler
gauges
oil cooler (and watch out for the T's with motors that did NOT do the cooler)
passenger mirror
not sure abut the front sway bar but I think its "s".

I think I missed one or two but those are nice options... I really like the S front spoiler myself.. and I also like the deco on the rockers.. but thats me. and Deco is $350 from Pelican I think..

Oh and you get to fly the 'S' insignia without feeling guilty..

jkarolyi · 01-05-2007, 01:18 PM

'69 S models did not have the front spoiler, that did not debut until 1972. All of the '69-73 911Ts I've seen except for two had the S deco trim, guages, and stock oil cooler. Passenger mirror was optional on all models as far as I know. Is it true that some Ts came without any oil cooler at all? Not even the Behr one behind the engine?

In any case, I still don't think an S roller is worth more than a grand or two more than an average T roller.

calling911 · 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jkarolyi
'69 S models did not have the front spoiler, that did not debut until 1972. All of the '69-73 911Ts I've seen except for two had the S deco trim, guages, and stock oil cooler. Passenger mirror was optional on all models as far as I know. Is it true that some Ts came without any oil cooler at all? Not even the Behr one behind the engine?

In any case, I still don't think an S roller is worth more than a grand or two more than an average T roller.

Show me one T with a S oil cooler.... do you know what an S cooler is? It requires lines thru the rocker area.. thats why you do not see them on T's.. unless you run them under the car which is a big mistake if you ask me.. disaster waiting to happen.. so I would not even call it an S cooler if the lines are exposed under the car. All of that was optional yes, but not on an S.. it was all standard.. all I am saying is to say that 90% is motor is not accurate... yes, most T's did have the gauges.. but very few had the rest... My 69 has a S spoiler but I am sure it was an add on by someone.

Ebay prices disagree with your last comment in a HUGE way.. I've seen rusty old crap roller S's go for $6k.. do a search and you will see.. its nuts.. BUT.. if you do the welding and source the motor.. you have a $30k car minimum. I'd pay that for an "ok" roller.. to be honest.. if the torsion tube area was good I'd pay it even if the rest were a mess.. but I do the work.. if I had to have it done.. forget it.. the math would not work..

And yes, the spoiler did not come till later.. my error.. I keep forgeting that for some reason.. Speaking of which.. INSANITY:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-911S-911T-911E-1973-911S-Front-Spoiler-NOS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34204QQihZ018QQitem Z280064608888QQrdZ1

Whoops.. cant get the link to work.. s spoiler on ebay NOS for $1500.. nuts.

Monza_dh · Monza_dh's Garage

The guy in MA that was selling the 69S, sorry I thought it was a 68 for a minute, had it at Autobahn in Peabody a month ago. I deleted the emails and pics from my yahoo account once I passed.

His email is below if anyone is interested:

dbcamp@adelphia.net

calling911 · 01-05-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monza_dh
The guy in MA that was selling the 69S, sorry I thought it was a 68 for a minute, had it at Autobahn in Peabody a month ago. I deleted the emails and pics from my yahoo account once I passed.

His email is below if anyone is interested:

dbcamp@adelphia.net

Yeah; didn't think it was a 68s.. a 68s is basically illegal in the US.

How bad was this 69s?

Todd Simpson · 01-06-2007, 04:58 AM

That's a bit if an overstatement.

A '68S was illegal in the US almost 40 years ago. Plenty have been brought over since then and trade for strong prices.

I agree that this car could be a hot item for some people who want an S and don't know or car about the details, cardex, etc.

calling911 · 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd Simpson
That's a bit if an overstatement.

A '68S was illegal in the US almost 40 years ago. Plenty have been brought over since then and trade for strong prices.

I agree that this car could be a hot item for some people who want an S and don't know or car about the details, cardex, etc.

No, its not an overstatment.. its illegal without special homologation.

There's a targa on ebay right now though

Who got the money?

pu911 · 01-06-2007, 07:23 AM

The 68 S was not sold at US dealers as a new car but there have been plently of legitimate channels to bring one into the states. During the 80's an entire industry was formed to bring grey market European car into states, all you need to do was to bring them up to DOT standard which meant replacing headlights installing door beams and a MPH speedo.
Phil

Monza_dh · Monza_dh's Garage

The one in MA had a few electrical glitches(thats whay it was at teh shop) and some rust. I can't recall if it had carbs or whatever but thte guy was a P-car guy who had a 993 as well.