3.6 conversion value?

[CA_WhaleTail]

Haven't seen many for sale- what would the resale value be for a 3.6 conversion in a 1987 G-50 sunroof coupe? No race mods, clean interior, f/r spoilers, fuch 16s, narrow body? Would be CA smog-legal.

Want to keep the car, but doing a 'down-side' reality check. thanks!

[racer]

Pictures are worth a thousand words..

Also.. is the 3.6 from a 964 or a 993? How many miles on the motor? how many miles on the car? any brake upgrades? Is the suspension original (ie, 24 year old components?)

$17-25k?

[CA_WhaleTail]

good points- its all hypothetical at this point hence nothing to show. Basically while it runs fine, the suspension rubber is original as is the tranny. New brakes, but stock '87.

From what I've seen, most are looking for as many refreshed parts as possible. At this point I'm just considering the 3.6 transplant into a higher miles car (200k+), and trying to get a rough idea where my downside risk might be should financial circumstances change. Clearly repairs and mods aren't done for profit, so its more of a risk assessment.

[cellison]

don't think there is any downside risk on a high mileage narrow body g50 car and may actually add some value, but down the road (10 years?)there may be some downside as they get older and more "collectible",the orginal 3.2 may be more valuable.

[ttweed]

Originally Posted by Jay Jones

At this point I'm just considering the 3.6 transplant into a higher miles car (200k+), and trying to get a rough idea where my downside risk might be should financial circumstances change.

Jay,
No one has a crystal ball, and future values may change, but call Mark Kinninger at Black Forest and pick his brain about what the market is for these cars. He has built and sold a bunch of 3.6L street car conversions out of SCs and Carreras over the last 10 years or so, and would be able to answer a lot of your questions regarding cost vs. value, etc. His answers will be grounded in experiences that most of us don't have, because he is in the business of doing exactly what you are talking about (in between just fixing customer cars) except he doesn't keep the product for long, he just turns it over and goes on to the next one.

TT

[johnsjmc]

Since you can buy a high mileage 993 under 20K. the value of an older car with a used 3.6 has to be lower. The 993 will already have bigger brakes,wheels,6 speed,ABS and working air. Probably lower than a low mi 3.2 car as well.

[racer]

The other issue working against future value is time. As the cars get older, folks will buy up the "original" ones first. I see a huge demand for long hoods with original motors and condition, and less demand for those with large motors/flares/mods.

Given that your car has 200K miles already(?) I would simply do the 3.6 upgrade. Not sure what 3.6 motor prices are and depending on the year how much of the "other stuff" -ie, coolers, suspension to deal with heavier motor etc you would want to do or could afford to do.

I recall a friend doing a 3.6 conversion into his '77 and it was a LOT of money imho. It might be cheaper overall to rebuild your current known motor, maybe add a more open exhaust and chip and keep it as is. I imagine some 3.2 savvy engines are getting 15-20hp over stock ratings (which would get you close to a stock 964 3.6 motor)

[David W]

A suggestion is to sell the car and buy a 993. I have a 95 3.6 that I intended to put in my 87. Even doing all the labor myself the conversion cost plus engine will be 13K plus. A shop would charge close to 20k I bet. If you want the 3.6 experince buy a nice 993. I really love my early lightweight 911's for a backroad sprint. But for any longer trips my 97 993 (RS look and susp) with its superior suspention/handling and "real" ac etc is so much better. And it has a lot of value in the future IMO. I agree any modified car will have less value long term. I have a 73 I am making into an RSR (like the rest of the free world) but is was a T sporto and sephia brown (now GP white) so it would never be sought after car. But a stock 87 g50 will be of value, even one at 200k.

[CA_WhaleTail]

indeed its a slippery slope- once the engine is done then there's the rest of the car.

Seems the 964 option is not getting any attention. RSAs are getting pricey, but couldn't a clean 964 be also considered a 3.6 experience with the right setup? Or is it worth the upgrade cost to go into a 993?

[ttweed]

Originally Posted by Jay Jones

Seems the 964 option is not getting any attention. RSAs are getting pricey, but couldn't a clean 964 be also considered a 3.6 experience with the right setup?

964s are getting plenty of attention from the early 911 crowd:
36-page 964 thread on the Early S registry forum.

I think they have been a little overlooked in the market, but that is changing. They can be a very rewarding car to drive, especially with some weight reduction. The 993 included a major rear suspension update, and of course a fairly radical revision to the body lines that many people love, so there is quite a jump in value between them for the same condition car. Not sure if its worth the premium for the 993--depends on personal tastes, I think.

TT

[David W]

I think the biggest future problem of the 964's (minus RS America) is the looks. Even the RS America is just Ok to me. The 993 is my second to the 73 RS/RSR as the "best looking 911". The 964 are just not attractive. And the 4wd models are complex and have horrible understeer.
From the ads I have seen a "nice" 964 (22-25K) is not that cheaper than a nice 993 (25-30K). Long term I think the $5k would be worth it. Plus you get more power/refinement and much better handling. You can run larger tires (I am running 285 rears). I am impressed how well my 993 rides and handles, even with 18's. One factor on mine is the "Gert" matched Bilt sus/H&R springs.

But to me the 993 RS is just a great looking car that I like to walk up to. That is a critical factor when investing in a car, does it excite you both visually and when driving it. Not many cars do both I think.
David

[pavulon]

yup. Who could ever like a 964? Yuck.

[equality72521]

No likey 964. Bumpers just don't seem to "fit" the car.

[SilberUrS6]

I love the look of the 964. My ultimate Porsche is the 965. *drool*

[Cal44]

Equality is spot on. It's the bumpers. They overpower, the overall look of the car.

The eye goes right too the bumpers instead of taking in the entire car as a design.

One secret is too paint the wheels darker if you have a dark car. It helps reduce the pull too the lower section with those pesky bumpers.

The wheels on the lighter colored cars can be left alone. as the bumpers do not appear so large. It's a color thing.

[David W]

Jay,
Back to your question. I would get a quote and sit down and write out the projected cost of your various options. Look on Patrick Motor. web site, add up all the parts and your eyes will water! A 3.6 transplant is not irreversible (if you keep you old engine). I have learned the hard way not to separate an original engine from the car. I do think if you look at the cost of a 3.6 conversion (with labor and conversion parts) and add that to what you can sell your car for you can buy a nicer lower mileage 993 (or 964, ha) or even a G50 car already converted.
I have owned many of the 84-89 911s’ and they are bulletproof. Compared to today’s standards they are a bit slow and have poor brakes. In stock form they don’t handle that great also. But hey feel like a sports car, especially with a few suspension mods to reduce the understeer. Add a chip and take out some weight (bumpers) and they wake up.
One thing you have not shared is your “use” of the car. If it’s a DE/track car the 3.6 makes sense. For street use only, go with a newer car (but not the 996/997 with the junk engine!). Can you fill us in a bit more?