What to do when I see a bad deal getting advertised here - Page 2

TV74911S · 03-07-2013, 01:24 PM

Hey Matt
Ever wonder what that car would bring now?

Matt Monson · 03-07-2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV74911S

Hey Matt
Ever wonder what that car would bring now?

It spent about a year getting a bare metal restoration and then sold to a nice gentleman in Berlin for 55K Euro. That was in the fall of 2010.

SilberUrS6 · 03-07-2013, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

That '70 I mention above was bought to drive. I kept it for about a year. Then the market took off and I needed some money for my business. I paid $1k for it and sold it for close to $10k. I feel no remorse for making a profit on that car. I was just in the right place at the right time.

I don't think that's a flip. Especially if you were honest when you sold it. "I want to keep it, but I need money for my business. I've had it a year, but sadly, the time has come to sell."

Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with getting market value for it.

SilberUrS6 · 03-07-2013, 03:28 PM

Now here's a flip:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/737736-fuchs-9-x-15-rare-911-3-0rs-rsr-st.html

But as flips go, this is one where I think it might be something closer to what one might call an investment. Find a rare set of wheels on eBay, where Fuchs sellers seem to think their wheels are made of gold, buy for a fire-sale price, send them out ot get checked for round/true, sell them under value on Pelican. Real RSR wheels are very rare, so this offer looks like a pretty good bargain for someone.

Guy got a deal, added some value, and is now passing along the opportunity. He's actually taking a real risk, as the market for those wheels is small.

dporsche74 · 07:20 AM

If you mix Wayne Carini " all about the chase" and Warren Buffet rule of thumb "Always Buy low and sell high" .. makes for alot of fun ....

and slightly addicteive too..

All good.. happy .happy. Porsche 911 forever lol
Ive been buiying parts from PP since 2003 ,,its the best PCar site on the net with best prices too!!!

Matt Monson · 03-07-2013, 04:50 PM

I totally used to get a gambler's high on "the deal". I used to buy and sell a bunch of JDM Subaru parts and have had some pretty rare stuff over the years. Have had ( and still do in some instance) some really rare Porsche stuff too. But for me the rules of the game changed a few years back.

I now own a Pcar manufacturing business. I do not bring my business into Wayne's house. Or in the rare instance I do I show respect. About two years ago I saw a super rare nos gearset being sold for nothing. Hadn't seen one of that one in years. I grabbed it. And copied it.

Then when I was done with it I sold it right back here on pelican for what I paid for it. I believe in paying things forward and appreciate what Wayne has created here for us.

SilberUrS6 · 03-07-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I totally used to get a gambler's high on "the deal". I used to buy and sell a bunch of JDM Subaru parts and have had some pretty rare stuff over the years. Have had ( and still do in some instance) some really rare Porsche stuff too. But for me the rules of the game changed a few years back.

I now own a Pcar manufacturing business. I do not bring my business into Wayne's house. Or in the rare instance I do I show respect. About two years ago I saw a super rare nos gearset being sold for nothing. Hadn't seen one of that one in years. I grabbed it. And copied it.

Then when I was done with it I sold it right back here on pelican for what I paid for it. I believe in paying things forward and appreciate what Wayne has created here for us.

I guess that's the philosophical direction I'm headed as well. The "anything goes" attitude I find insulting - it's not the rare parts or good deals that have me coming to PP. In fact, if there was no FS sections at all, I would still come to PP, and spend just as much time here. Enthusiasts talking about their cars - that's what I'm here for. And for many other folks, it's the very same way. That's why I'm not fond of flippers, especially flippers that buy here on PP, then resell immediately. That is only arbitrage, taking advantage of the set-up Wayne has created. It goes directly against the spirit of the FS sections, IMO, if not the letter of the law. I guess for folks who see only dollar signs, as long as they are allowed to flip, they'll do it, the hell with what anyone thinks.

Unobtanium-inc · 03-09-2013, 04:31 AM

Honest car flipping is one of those things that a community needs. I'll give you a good example. Recently I went on a buying trip and picked up three cars in FL, from a guy who had told me I could come by but nothing was for sale, well, to make a long story short I left there with 3 356's, that had been there since the 70s. So three cars that no one had ever been able to buy though many had tried. After that stop I stopped again and bought a another 356, so that makes 4. One more stop, met up with an 83 year old ex-racer that has never sold anything, ever. Well, I left there with 8 356's, so the count is now up to 12 for the trip. 12 cars that would have never made it on the market if I, the flipper, had not done the legwork and made it happen. That's 12 cars that can get into the hands of guys who want a car to restore.
So hate the flipper, but without a flipper a lot of this stuff will never see the light of day.
And since this is a 911 discussion I will add a 911 story, a few weeks ago Matt and I went to visit a guy on Long Island who had a 67 S in his backyard, that had been sitting there since the early 90's, we bought it and it is now being restored by a collector who is sparing no expense to restore a rare matching #s Canary Yellow S, that was rough, and had it been left to rot in the guy's backyard for another 10-20 years there may have been nothing left to restore.
So without the flipper, that would be one less 911S in circulation, because this guy had no plans to sell it, he would have let it sit until it blew away.
Oh, and don't even get me started on digging out parts that are covered in animal poop out of nasty barns, yeah, we do that too. Want to read a really horrible story that will probably take years off my life, read here:
Toxic Haul | THE UNOBTANIATE

Matt Monson · 03-09-2013, 08:24 AM

You aren't a flipper under my definition. You are a business, and one that is in the business of saving old Porsches and parts. You are essential as far as I am concerned.

vracer · vracer's Garage

Love those pictures! My hat is off to anyone who can make a car out of that kind of thing. And if no one can, the parts may help bring another car back to life. Also, my hat is off to you guys for finding them and dealing with cranky old farts who will NEVER SELL.

SilberUrS6 · 03-09-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You aren't a flipper under my definition. You are a business, and one that is in the business of saving old Porsches and parts. You are essential as far as I am concerned.

I agree completely.

There is a big difference between someone who makes the unavailable available (which is what you've done here) and someone who takes something that is widely available then turns it around quickly at a large mark-up.

pyite20v · 03-10-2013, 07:56 PM

Okay so we all hate flippers, and especially flippers who make something more valuable not because they do anything to it, but simply because they aren't as honest as the person they bought it from.

So what do we do about this situation? How do we make sure someone on Pelican here doesn't get burned? I just dont want someone to have to go through that when we could have helped.

Matt Monson · 03-11-2013, 06:38 AM

You start by asking a bunch of questions of the seller. Once you are reasonably sure that the seller is up to no good, start a thread here. The truth will come out.

SilberUrS6 · 03-11-2013, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyite20v

Okay so we all hate flippers, and especially flippers who make something more valuable not because they do anything to it, but simply because they aren't as honest as the person they bought it from.

So what do we do about this situation? How do we make sure someone on Pelican here doesn't get burned? I just dont want someone to have to go through that when we could have helped.

We don't all hate them, and that's the problem. Some Pelicans actually take advantage of the situation to make money by flipping. There are those who adamantly defend the practice, and try to shout down others by casting them as "anti-capitalist" or "profit-hating" or some other giant load of male bovine feces.

The only way to defeat egregious flippers is by using information. Guy is selling a checkered 3.2 for $12k. Flipper buys, does a detail and a nice photo shoot, lists it for $19.5k. You come in here, list the original ad and the current ad, and wonder aloud what value has been added for $7500? OK, $500 for the detail, sure. But the other seven large?

Six Gun · 03-11-2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyite20v

Okay so we all hate flippers, and especially flippers who make something more valuable not because they do anything to it, but simply because they aren't as honest as the person they bought it from.

So what do we do about this situation? How do we make sure someone on Pelican here doesn't get burned? I just dont want someone to have to go through that when we could have helped.

Caveat Emptor "let the buyer beware" On this site as well as others the call for PPI is always the first , last, and most often given advice. If people don't want to listen, Well--------As Jimmy Buffet put it so welll, "there ain't no dumb-ass vaccine.

As far as flippers are concerned what is one mans flipper, is another mans Antique dealer. The act of re-sale is what makes our Capitalistic system work. What is right and what is wrong is up to the buyer to determine. Hate is a bit of a strong word.

SilberUrS6 · 03-11-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six Gun

The act of re-sale is what makes our Capitalistic system work. What is right and what is wrong is up to the buyer to determine.

No, I think that other folks who are not buyers and seller can determine right and wrong as well. The "how" and the "where" and the "what" of resale makes a difference - a guy who combs barns and lots and finds previously not-for-sale cars/parts and brings them into the marketplace is offering a service to all enthusiasts. A guy who is merely offering a third-party mark-up serves nobody but himself. The value of that can and should be interpreted by everyone who might use any particular marketplace.

Flippers (the second kind I talk about) are not usually well-regarded anywhere in any enthusiast community. Not just Porsches. The first kind of seller usually is. The "how" and "what" and "where" do matter to a lot of people, and not just a buyer with money in-hand.

Matt Monson · 03-11-2013, 09:35 AM

Calling out every flipper and picking fights is petty in my opinion. Posting a new thread here should really be reserved for the most egregious offenses where someone is at risk of buying a total lemon. Though as Six Gun points out, paying for a PPI will protect you from buying a dog.

Six Gun · 03-11-2013, 10:01 AM

[QUOTE=SilberUrS6;7322071]No, I think that other folks who are not buyers and seller can determine right and wrong as well. The "how" and the "where" and the "what" of resale makes a difference - a guy who combs barns and lots and finds previously not-for-sale cars/parts and brings them into the marketplace is offering a service to all enthusiasts. A guy who is merely offering a third-party mark-up serves nobody but himself. The value of that can and should be interpreted by everyone who might use any particular marketplace.

The people that you refer to are the public, and they do have a say, its called a vote and they elect the people who make the laws. As far as I know, there is no law against flipping.

If you were to outlaw or otherwise penalize people who make a living as third party re-salers, you would have a lot more people out of work.

pwalke · pwalke's Garage

Getting back to the original question of how to deal with someone with a suspect reputation...

The user in question has a bit of a google problem. If you search for his name full name on google, you'll uncover questionable dealings with other cars being sold on other boards or ebay where others have complained about him. This isn't just flipping... it is people calling him dishonest.

I think it's legitimate to bring this up on the boards as a word of caution to others who might deal with him in the future.

coldstart · 03-11-2013, 10:33 AM

I see the same thing over again both with older cars and newer cars.

I was looking at buying a 997 in December 2012. I spoke with the owner of a sweet 997 who stated that the car was in excellent condition and Porsche was willing to replace the RMS (rear main seal) which was weeping under CPO and he would replace the clutch which was slipping at the same time. I missed out and the car sold to another buyer.

Move ahead 45 days, the same car is again for sale by another party for $1,500 more. New seller states the car is in perfect condition with no issues. I contact him and he states the car has no issues. I ask about the RMS and the clutch and he states that no they haven't been done and both issues still remain. (very different than no issues). I ask about getting a PPI and he tells me that he never registered the car so it isn't driveable on the road. I passed on the car.