Notice how there are no more "which car is right for me" threads...

[r-mm]

Its interesting to me - having debated an air cooled G body car in 2012, bought one in early 2013 and followed the market since - how there seem to be close to zero threads debating the relative merits of SC, 3.2, 915, G50, 964, 993, top ends etc - its just shut up and buy as fast as you can. I'm not saying anything in particular about the market (there is plenty of ink spilled on that) just saying that it points to a casualty of the market - actual critical thinking about the cars in question! I mean let's be honest... if you had asked someone in 1995 how they fancied a rust prone 911T with 110hp on a good day, $12k engine rebuild if you're lucky and twice that to make it rust free and shine perfectly, they'd say no thanks. What's changed about the car itself? I guess whats changed, as mentioned elsewhere is that its not really a "car" anymore.

Around 2013 I noticed the strangely low prices turbos were going for compared to their NA counterparts and debated picking one up for the ~40k the were going for, then I realized there is no where around here for me to stretch its legs, I don't want to live with 9mpg city and I'd get much more joy out of lavishing time and upkeep on my 3.2 than having a car that isn't exactly what I wanted. Today if I saw one for 40k I'd be sprinting to the bank... and I would be looking at it as a rolling mutual fund more than a car.

Just saying.

[black_falcon]

Originally Posted by pmax

Now this forum is littered with "how to maximize profits on a deal (flippers), how not to devalue with any mods I make (collectors) and what's my car worth (lucky bastards), it's a bubble (???)" threads.

Par for the course during a price run-up. If you think this is bad you should see the 308/328 subforum on Ferrarichat.

[r-mm]

Yeah the 328/308 has followed a similar trajectory... it used to be "best entry ferrari?" now its a land grab for something with a horse on it. Shame as I really like a lot of those 308s.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by r-mm

Yeah the 328/308 has followed a similar trajectory... it used to be "best entry ferrari?" now its a land grab for something with a horse on it. Shame as I really like a lot of those 308s.

I have always been a 308 fan, although the 328 is the better car. I was always a fan of 288 GTOs as well, as I have worked on them, driven them, and photographed them. They were 1.1 million in 1988. Then they went down to about $320K. Then in the last year now it's 2.7 million. Wow. The 308 is a great car. It doesn't matter if its steel or glass, they are nice. You think a 911 engine rebuild is expensive.

Now we're stuck with dreaming about Mondial 8s. I'm saving my money and hopefully the stars will align for a 355. To me, it's the last real Ferrari eight.

[COLB]

Get a Mondial while you can.

[black_falcon]

If you can swallow the looks, the Mondial is quite a nice little Ferrari. It's not going to win any races but it delivers all the right sounds and sensations.

This particular Mondial caught my eye. I'm warming up to the coupes. Ferrari Mondial Quattrovalvole | eBay

You can still snag a 348 for 30-40k. Something tells me that's going to quickly change as potential 308/328 buyers are priced out of the market.

[Nick Triesch]

The guys in the Ferrari club told me at our Coronado vintage car races that if a Ferrari has only 8 cylinders it was not a real one. Must have 12 they said. I left the area right away.

[TPorsche912]

Originally Posted by pmax

I reached a similar conclusion as you.

Weren't these turbos dubbed as "widow makers" ?
I wouldn't be driving them in the twisties. Straight line blasts probably fun but there's way too much traffic around here. The 3.2 was the right choice for me.

Yep, Widow Makers they are, but only in the hands of a novice. Having driven one quite hard, its all about understanding the law of physics.

The key to driving a Turbo really quickly is memorizing the words......
Dont lift, don't lift, DON'T LIFT........... the last thing you want to do is shift the momentum to the rear of the car in a turn unless of course you have lot's of parking lot to do 180's in.

The worst part of driving a 930 in traffic is all the folks wanting you to pull into a parking lot so they can oogle over your car.

[TPorsche912]

Originally Posted by COLB

Get a Mondial while you can.

I have never been a fan of buying a car just cause it makes dollar sense. If I buy a Ferrari I want one that looks like a Ferrari. The Mondial always reminded me more of a Bitter SC than a Ferrari. Kinda the same thing with a Lamborghini 400. Not really what I expect from a Lambo.

For the last 8 yrs I've watched the market on the 348 Ferrari's. While I have never owned a Ferrari, and haven't spent lots of time around mechanics that do know the cars, I really like the looks of the 348 Spiders and if there was ever an undervalued car in my mind, that's it. And it has been for all these years. It's kinda like the baby brother of the Testarossa, which has only recently started to show an increase in it's value.

I bought my 930 when noone wanted them, and now might be the right time to pull the trigger on the right 348.

Here's a good example. 1995 FERRARI 348 SPIDER

[medici78]

I think we're reaching the point when a large proportion of cars for sale are in the hands of flippers and dealers. I'm noticing many cars have been sitting at inflated pricing (9 out of 10 times in the hands of a flipper), but cars sell quickly when enthusiasts are pricing them "right". Of course, the buyer (more and more) is usually a flipper or dealer. This group doesn't care about what the right car is for them.

[Arne2]

Another issue may be that it seems to me that there are considerably fewer cars on the market now, which may be helping the price run-up due to simple supply and demand. For those of us who live outside the SoCal area, the cars to choose from are few. Not much point in asking which is the best car, when you don't have a selection to choose from.

When I bought my '84 3½ years ago, I had at least six to eight '74-89 coupes to choose from within a 300 mile radius here in the Pacific NW. Add in a few targas and cabs, and there was probably a dozen total. Most were offered by owners, not dealers.

Today, if I do the same searches in the same radius, I'm lucky if I see one or maybe two at most. Where did they all go? Who has them now? Are they driving them, or just letting them sit in a garage somewhere waiting for profit maximization before they put them back on the market?

[Menmojo]

Originally Posted by Arne2

Another issue may be that it seems to me that there are considerably fewer cars on the market now, which may be helping the price run-up due to simple supply and demand. For those of us who live outside the SoCal area, the cars to choose from are few. Not much point in asking which is the best car, when you don't have a selection to choose from.

When I bought my '84 3½ years ago, I had at least six to eight '74-89 coupes to choose from within a 300 mile radius here in the Pacific NW. Add in a few targas and cabs, and there was probably a dozen total. Most were offered by owners, not dealers.

Today, if I do the same searches in the same radius, I'm lucky if I see one or maybe two at most. Where did they all go? Who has them now? Are they driving them, or just letting them sit in a garage somewhere waiting for profit maximization before they put them back on the market?

Good point! It sure appears that the inventory for sale has been slowly reduced to the point where here's not much to choose from.
I've also noticed that the available good air cooled 911 race cars is virtually non existent. Anyone else notice this with the race cars or is it just me??

[COLB]

Originally Posted by black_falcon

If you can swallow the looks, the Mondial is quite a nice little Ferrari. It's not going to win any races but it delivers all the right sounds and sensations.

This particular Mondial caught my eye. I'm warming up to the coupes. Ferrari Mondial Quattrovalvole | eBay

You can still snag a 348 for 30-40k. Something tells me that's going to quickly change as potential 308/328 buyers are priced out of the market.

I admit to being a sucker for 4-place convertibles. I never hated Mondials, but i am not a Ferrari purist.

Someone got a heck of a deal on that car in your link. No matter what anyone thinks of them, are ANY Ferraris long term market dogs? Even the 308GT4s have doubled of late.

Unless the entire bottom drops out, the market is going to get around to Mondials eventually.

[ficke]

I had a Ferrari, 1981 400I 5-speed, they are fun, look good, tons of liner power, and they make ruf 930 turbos look cheap to maintain.
That car bled me of money. I had to finally let go, even though it was hurting me the whole time I loved it. If you drive Ferraris they cost a lot of money. That is probably why most Ferraris have so little miles on them.
I put over 25,000 miles on mine and it cost me.
Porsche are like a wife and Ferrari's are a mistress.
Ferrari recommends and engine out "Service" at 40,000 miles to change the timing chains and install all new guides and valves, and rebuild the water pump, since you have to remove the engine to remove the water pump anyway. I waited till 52,000 miles and wore a groove in the timing chest because of such a sloppy chain.
The aluminm 12 weighed more than a BBC and even though it was a wet sump it held 17 quarts of oil.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by pmax

I reached a similar conclusion as you.

Weren't these turbos dubbed as "widow makers" ?
I wouldn't be driving them in the twisties. Straight line blasts probably fun but there's way too much traffic around here. The 3.2 was the right choice for me.

They are a terrific cornering car (driving in the twisties as you call it) - point and shoot with a clear head on your shoulders (much like riding a big bore sportbike). Exiting a corner and flooring it (or 'sort of' flooring it) in one of these things is really quite the rush.

Originally Posted by TPorsche912

Yep, Widow Makers they are, but only in the hands of a novice. Having driven one quite hard, its all about understanding the law of physics.

The key to driving a Turbo really quickly is memorizing the words......
Dont lift, don't lift, DON'T LIFT........... the last thing you want to do is shift the momentum to the rear of the car in a turn unless of course you have lot's of parking lot to do 180's in.

Excellent observations, and I might add that simply not being a meathead behind the wheel goes a long way. In other words, the driver should understand that rear wheel torque increases dramatically under boost and the front wheels need to be pointed straight ahead if you want to avoid a ball shrinking, tail-snap, or worse, when boost hits. And like I mentioned in the other thread, replacing the pitiful stock turbocharger with one that actually works well really improves throttle response and driving confidence.

Originally Posted by r-mm

I don't want to live with 9mpg city

Hilarious and true! I've got mine in about as good a state of tune that one can expect from K-Jetronic / Lambda - 14.6-14.8 idle and cruise AFR - and average about 9mpg city and about 11-12 highway. Of course, this is with quite a bit of boosting, as after all, that's what I got the car for (AFR of high 10s - low 11s under boost . . . on the rich side and safe but room for improvement there). If driven a lot, they definitely go through a lot of fuel. I regularly drive one way, almost all highway, 70 miles and use about 5 gallons of gas to do so (lots of boosting mixed in, so not trying to get max mileage). The rapid fuel consumption still amazes me after all these years, but I've learned to just embrace my car's "anti-green to the extreme" situation with a laugh, though - ha ha!