Value of a yard-find: 1981 911 SC, 200k miles, that currently wont start

[Punchdrunk]

UPDATED WITH NEW PICTURES ON A LATER POST NOW THAT IT IS RUNNING


New member and first time poster looking for advice.

I have been watching a 1981 911 SC Targa sitting in front of a nice expensive house for the last month. The car has a not moved in that time, and they have clearly mowed around it. Last Saturday morning I noticed someone in the yard so I pulled in and asked about the car. They were friendly and said they would consider selling it. Here is info here is what I got:

1981 911 SC Targa originally from California, but transported to the Deep South about 9 years ago for college female to drive. Turns out daughter didn’t like it dealing with a stick shift and gave it back to her parents, but they hung onto it. It has since been driven less and less over the past nine years, and very little over the last few years. Currently will not start because needs a new “ignition box”. I believe the owner has purchased some parts but not taken the time to get it towed to repair shop.

I asked if I could look at it briefly, and in my completely useless opinion the outside is pretty clean. Paint is in good shape, targa top is in moderate shape. Possibly a little rust along the window sill above rear fender. Interior however is pretty dirty. I wish I had taken better pictures, but I wasn’t really prepared to give it a proper inspection, just curious about the car. So at the moment its best to consider it uninspected.

The owner said that once they got it running they would call me. However, that has now been 2 additional weeks, and it hasn’t moved. I get the feeling they are in no rush.

So, the question is: What is the value of that car sitting there right not as is, such that I could offer to pay and tow it off their property? Would that be completely dumb?

If they got it running, I would of course want a full PPI, etc. They are more than likely going to want more than I would be willing to pay even now. But there is some low value number at which I can safely not lose much money, even if its sold as a parts car.

[specialtyoneinc]

My guess after your description is $8-10k. We would need to see pictures & history etc... You could get yourself in a 5 figure repair bill quite quickly on a neglected car. GL

[Punchdrunk]

Attached is the only good picture I have. My only goal here is to see its even worth making an offer. I dont want to offend the owner, but I dont want to be stupid either. I think that is rust near the window above the right rear tire.

Ideally I would purchase it for 7500, and then put about ~10,000 in repairs over the next few years. I recognize that it may need a top end rebuild, transmission work, etc. but if the motor is completely shot or its rusted out that is a different story. If they want more than 10K for it, I would probably pass until they get it running and I can get a legitimate PPI. Regardless, I would check the title, VIN, crawl around looking for rust, and probably bring an old friend who knows classic cars with me.

Mostly I am scratching a curiosity itch because I pass it every day, and the sooner I realize its a bad deal the better.

[NYNick]

If you can get that car for $7500, buy it and tow it away very quickly. You're thinking clearly with your estimates.

The fact that 'they mow around it' makes me think the underside needs a very close inspection. Sitting on grass for 9 years isn't good.

Even at $10k, you'd make killing in parts alone. Buy it before someone else does.

[Punchdrunk]

I don't think they have mowed around it for that long. It appeared in the yard around 1 month ago, give or take a week or so. Its somewhat hidden by trees, but I would have noticed it because I have been eyeing these type of cars for a few years now and drive by the house each day.

I think they are having garage or backyard work done. So it either just died there in the last month , or they pushed it out when the work on the garage started. Currently I do not know when it last ran.

I am sure they will ask more than I am willing to give.

Thanks for the advice.

[trader220]

I am with Nick.... Even with the one photo, unless its rotting to death on the underside or totally gutted I cant see how you could get hurt paying 10 grand for it. But... why pay 10 when you can offer them $7500 and see where it goes?

[Patrick3000]

Based on your description and the picture that car is a good buy at $12,500 non running. Go back today with cash and a tow truck!

Good luck

[Southbay356]

if it is out on a main road then you are not the first guy to ask about it !

[spb350]

If they bought it 9 years ago they didn't pay much for it. I would go with a trailer and a bunch of cash and get them to give you a number as is. As previously posted you are not the only one to see it and possibly ask about it. I bet 10K would buy it no problem but see if you can get a number from him, it may be less. Does he know anything about the motor? receipts?

[kc911s]

Yeah- you need to take a trailer and cash and bring that car home. What's the worst that can happen- they say no?

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by Punchdrunk

Ideally I would purchase it for 7500, and then put about ~10,000 in repairs over the next few years. I recognize that it may need a top end rebuild, transmission work, etc.

You're looking at a conservative number for repairs being $20k for a top-end, tranny refresh and everything else that will go wrong with a car that's been neglected.

Ask me how I know...

If you can snag it for $10k, I'd buy it and part it. Heck, if I were local, I'd show up with cash and buy it before you for $10k

Good luck

[CountD]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

If you can snag it for $10k, I'd buy it and part it. Heck, if I were local, I'd show up with cash and buy it before you for $10k

Good luck

Time is way, way past for parting a car as nice as this one. This is no way a parts car. Car may need very little to get going again. However, to get it going right would probably be $5k (tank,lines, CIS, etc, etc). I wouldn't doom anything saying it needs this or that when it may or may not need it. It probably needs an understanding owner to put some time into it.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by CountD

Time is way, way past for parting a car as nice as this one. This is no way a parts car. Car may need very little to get going again. However, to get it going right would probably be $5k (tank,lines, CIS, etc, etc). I wouldn't doom anything saying it needs this or that when it may or may not need it. It probably needs an understanding owner to put some time into it.

Thats easy to say when its not your $.

Why? People need nice parts and not every car needs to be "understood". With this logic, only low quality used parts would exist

I'm only trying to be realistic as I am someone who "understood" a car in better shape than this (solid/rust free/running) albeit neglected, and paid $1 for it.

In the process of understanding and doing 90% of the work myself, I've dropped $15k into my 78SC Targa to get it realiable and presentable...only to drive it 500 miles in said form and have a head (valve giude/valve/seat) grenade on me. I'm now staring down the barrel of a $15-20k engine rebuild (177k on bottom end) and a $4+k trans rebuild (its looong overdue).

My point being. These cars are enormous money pits to make them right, especially for someone budget minded. Parting could not only benefit the parter, but many other folks that need said parts.

[Southbay356]

Parting out a car you pay 10k for is an expensive job you just bought ,

easier to clean it up , do NOTHING mechanical ( pull the battery ) and turn it for a 3-5k profit ,

[pmax]

These are all $30k cars but worth every dollar spent on them

[Punchdrunk]

Update

They are hoping to have it repaired this weekend. If so, then next week I will be able to look at it and drive it. I think the owner will ask a reasonable price, but still possibly out of my range.

I was also told that there has been a lot of interest, including an offer to buy ‘as is’ already. So I will probably have to act quickly if I want it.

I would appreciate any comments on what to look for, since this will be the first old Porsche I have driven and could be a learning experience.

I will be sure to check:
1. Title
2. VIN
3. Maintenance Records. Evidence of upgrades.
4. Rust on undercarriage, wheel wells, door panels/frames, under carpet, under battery
5. Bubbles in paint
6. Oil leaks
7. Quality of rubber: hoses, brake lines, oil lines, tires.
8. Evidence of accident damage.
9. Ability to remove Targa top and quality of fittings/seals
10. Smoke on start and after revving engine
11. Drive quality as in all vehicles. Pulling, shaking, braking, acceleration.

If things seem positive, then I would move to a professional inspection.
Thanks again for all the feedback. I will take better pictures.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Take a look at "the ppi" sticky on rennlist forums...

[Southbay356]

Good luck and do not get pushed into buying something because "there has been a lot of interest"

it is a money pit , so make sure you have a few $1000 for the unknown !

[COLB]

If they get it running, driving, and stopping, the price is probably going to be over $15k -- even if it grinds going into second, leaks, and sputters.

If you can get in well under that, you are probably fine -- if it needs more than you want to put into it, then you can always resell it.

If the rust you are talking about is around the seam of the rear glass, that is a big warning sign of rot that goes much deeper. Check the rear seat pans. If it is the dark spot on the rear deck, that is less of a big deal.

Regardless, if you think the owners are going to go for a PPI, followed by a needle-dicking negotiation where you point out all the flaws, you are almost certainly fooling yourself.

This looks like a "pay your money & take your chances" deal. And if you are not willing to accept the risk on those terms, someone else certainly will be.

Forget about how much money it would take to "make it right." This is a car you drive as close to "as is" as you can.

If you want a "nice" and perfectly reliable car, you are looking at $30k. Better to buy one that is already in that condition than try to get a beater up to that standard.

[2ndTARGA]

Originally Posted by Punchdrunk

Update

I will be sure to check:
1. Title
2. VIN
3. Maintenance Records. Evidence of upgrades.
4. Rust on undercarriage, wheel wells, door panels/frames, under carpet, under battery
5. Bubbles in paint
6. Oil leaks
7. Quality of rubber: hoses, brake lines, oil lines, tires.
8. Evidence of accident damage.
9. Ability to remove Targa top and quality of fittings/seals
10. Smoke on start and after revving engine
11. Drive quality as in all vehicles. Pulling, shaking, braking, acceleration.

12. Check for door stay damage. See Pelican Technical Article: Door Stay Replacement and Reinforcement - 911 (1965-89) - 930 Turbo (1975-89)

Note - the reinforcement kits are to prevent the problem. If the attachments between the door stay and the doors are already messed up (detached internally), it's not easy to fix - as noted in the article.