converting to EFI help

[David]

I didn’t bother with a knock sensor since I figured a loud 930 engine would interfere with it but since I didn’t install one I don’t know if that’s true or not. I did go sequential since I’m running big injectors and wanted a good idle. I put a screw in magnet on the oil pump spacer that replaced the air pump gear and a sensor on the housing.

Maybe we should have thread just for e-throttle if there’s not one already. I’d like to go with it because I can’t get my 930 to Carrera TB linkage to be as smooth as I’d like. There’s still a little sticking right off idle and I’ve tried a few different bell crank ratios.

[pkabush]

Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel

Has the electronic control proved to be reliable so far? In the event that the PWM driver fails does it fail open? I guess if the wires short high it is full throttle, correct?

Can it eliminate the IAC motor with mega squirt, or did you still need one?

Check out the link that dap930 posted. Looks pretty promising

[patkeefe]

Crank sensors, especially if you are going to mount them on the flywheel.
Knock sensors.
Throttle position switches if necessary.
Vacuum and manifold ports as necessary.
Various temperature sensors (depends on which EFI you're going with).

[T77911S]

definitely want to do sequential.
not sure of injector size but figured around 80#.
ports have been opened up to 38mm and I have an SC cam and twin plug.
7200 turbo that has been modded for reduced lag.
B&B type header
RUF IC

where are you mounting the MAP sensor. I pulled out the "Y" pipe but have not plugged the hole yet, also have a hole in the back side of the manifold I have to plug that is threaded.

what are the benefits of the different RPM sensors. pulley on the front or flywheel.

so I need
cam sensor
flywheel or pulley sensor
MAP- where to mount
throttle position SW
CHT
IAT sensor- where to mount

pics would be great if anyone has them.
yes I am still searching threads and reading, but there are so many different ways people are doing things.

[spuggy]

MAP sensor has to be under the throttle plate - otherwise it can't read vacuum, just like the boost gauge can't. Other than that, it can be pretty much anywhere. Mine is tee'd off a port on the throttle body.

IAT isn't incredibly useful in my experience, other than showing heat soak if you let the car idle or shut it off and start it again. It'll just read ambient within a couple of minutes of moving off. Mine is in the outlet neck of the intercooler; a port in the inlet manifold itself would likely work just as well.

Front-mounted pulley sensor is more convenient to get at/gap with the motor in the car - especially if you don't already have a factory EFI flywheel with the missing teeth and/or the notches in the transmisson for the sensors. And the bracket(s) etc.. Some say the flywheel is a better source (bigger teeth/stronger signal). I use a Bosch sensor (with Clewett's belt conversion) anyway, and it seems fine.

[dos531]

Originally Posted by spuggy

MAP sensor has to be under the throttle plate - otherwise it can't read vacuum, just like the boost gauge can't. Other than that, it can be pretty much anywhere. Mine is tee'd off a port on the throttle body.

IAT isn't incredibly useful in my experience, other than showing heat soak if you let the car idle or shut it off and start it again. It'll just read ambient within a couple of minutes of moving off. Mine is in the outlet neck of the intercooler; a port in the inlet manifold itself would likely work just as well.

Front-mounted pulley sensor is more convenient to get at/gap with the motor in the car - especially if you don't already have a factory EFI flywheel with the missing teeth and/or the notches in the transmisson for the sensors. And the bracket(s) etc.. Some say the flywheel is a better source (bigger teeth/stronger signal). I use a Bosch sensor (with Clewett's belt conversion) anyway, and it seems fine.

IAT sensor is 100% necessary along with a MAP sensor in order to calculate airflow using speed density. You want it to be in the airflow, but preferably not in the intercooler or on the intake manifold to reduce heat soak issues. Mine is installed on the pipe that connects the intercooler to the throttle body.

[David]

I'll add a few pics to the discussion:

[Speedy Squirrel]

I think Spuggy was thinking of AmbT, which is not critical for normal use.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel

I think Spuggy was thinking of AmbT, which is not critical for normal use.

Well, I was thinking of Intake Air Temperature; mine (also in the intercooler hard pipe outlet to the throttle body) basically seems to do nothing interesting relative to ambient (mostly). But if the ECU uses it on an on-going basis, then OK...

[dos531]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Well, I was thinking of Intake Air Temperature; mine (also in the intercooler hard pipe outlet to the throttle body) basically seems to do nothing interesting relative to ambient (mostly). But if the ECU uses it on an on-going basis, then OK...

You must have a really amazing intercooler then! Even with my turbokraft full bay, its never at ambient, and will get hotter pretty quickly on longer pulls. Its a necessary part of the equation for the ecu to properly calculate the amount of air entering the engine.

[David]

A few more pics of my mess of an engine:

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by dos531

You must have a really amazing intercooler then!

Kokelyn; I do like 'em and it does seem to work pretty well, but I hadn't thought it was that exceptional.

Here's a log from a 30 minute drive, after the car sat baking in the sun (August, so probably 90F, at least) for several hours:

Originally Posted by dos531

Even with my turbokraft full bay, its never at ambient, and will get hotter pretty quickly on longer pulls. Its a necessary part of the equation for the ecu to properly calculate the amount of air entering the engine.

No, you're right.

Huh. I know heat soak is an issue on the dyno; even with box fans/bags of ice etc. But this is leisure driving - don't even reach spring rating, much less get the wastegate open.

The only time my IAT is the same as the ECU temp (in the engine bay) is before I start driving; see how it drops @ the 3-4 minute mark - when I use some RPM. CHT and oil (chaincase) temps climb when I stop and idle. But IAT and ECU temps don't seem to be very affected, as long as the fan is turning.

I see pretty much the same even in colder weather. IAT may rise a little with longer periods of boost - but this is a far cry from a dyno run, and it recovers very quickly at anything over 35 MPH.

If I stop for some reason and switch off, restarting within 5-10 minutes, IAT will spike considerably (20? 30C?) higher than the "moving" readings. And go back down within a few minutes of moving again, even on city streets.

[T77911S]

got my MS3 EVO yesterday

I am using the stock 930 intake

[dos531]

Originally Posted by T77911S

got my MS3 EVO yesterday

I am using the stock 930 intake

Glad it made it ok. I would call up chris at turbokraft and he can get you set up with a lot of the adapter parts that will make your conversion much simpler.

[T77911S]

david,
what cam sensor did you use.

does it have to be put in in a certain location as in TDC

[T77911S]

Could I machine a hole here for the CLT

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by T77911S

Could I machine a hole here for the CLT

Why not put it in the breather cover plate? There's probably a hole or a boss there for something else that is likely unused now. If not, its easy to do, new breather covers are cheaply available, and you don't run the chance of screwing up something expensive.

just remote the plate and do you drilling/tapping on the bench not on the engine lol

[David]

Originally Posted by T77911S

david,
what cam sensor did you use.

does it have to be put in in a certain location as in TDC

It's been over 12 years and I don't remember the specifics but I recall putting my magnet a little out of position so that the cam has to rotate at least one revolution before it's picked up which seems to add a fraction to the starting time.

Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by David

the cam has to rotate at least one revolution before it's picked up which seems to add a fraction to the starting time.

Most ECUs completely ignore cam signal - and thus won't fire either ignition or injectors, because they don't have sync - until they've seen enough pulses from it. Motec wants to see 2 pulses (non-configurable). Then they "know" where they are in relation to the crank ref and you're off to the races.

If crank ref is noisy - eg a mag sensor - actually getting sync can take more revolutions - due to bogus signals confusing the issue; helps a lot to establish how much voltage you're getting at cranking RPM (a product of the air gap setting for a mag sensor) and set the noise floor to ~60% of cranking voltage, so that any noise is ignored.

At idle, I see over 30V peak-to-peak (ie >15V above the zero axis) - but when cranking at 200 RPM or so, only ~2.2V peak-to-peak. Setting noise floor to 0.6V made starting a lot faster on the key - at a lower setting, it was clearly spinning over a few more times to get sync before trying to start.

[Kraftday]

^ Top upper left complements of Chris at TurboKraft for the air pump housing cam sync sensor.. 1/2 speed pickup for sequential fuel injection.