Top End Rebuild and Turbo Project underway

[polizei]

We cranked the engine and got fuel and oil pressure, but it wouldn't start up. We verified that we were NOT getting any spark. Doug suspects that one of the reference/speed sensors may be bad since we aren't getting any RPMs on the tach when we turn the key and crank. Any suggestions?

[WERK I]

Do you have an oscilloscope handy so you can view the crank sensor input to the ecu? Also, how are you feeding DC to the ECU? It is very important the battery feed to the ECU/sensors not be tied anywhere near the starter. The starter generates a tremendous amount of noise where the sensor output is drowned in a sea of noise.

[polizei]

We changed out the reference/rpm sensors and tested positive for resistance on the ohm meter, but we still weren't getting any spark. So we swapped from the Protomotive chip out for the stock chip. We got spark immediately, but haven't yet started the engine. I triple checked that the notch on the chip and the notch on the board were aligned. So it currently sounds like I may have received a bad chip from Protomotive. Would I cause any harm if I rotated the chip 180 degrees such that the notches are not aligned? Any suggestions? Thanks guys.

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by polizei

We changed out the reference/rpm sensors and tested positive for resistance on the ohm meter, but we still weren't getting any spark. So we swapped from the Protomotive chip out for the stock chip. We got spark immediately, but haven't yet started the engine. I triple checked that the notch on the chip and the notch on the board were aligned. So it currently sounds like I may have received a bad chip from Protomotive. Would I cause any harm if I rotated the chip 180 degrees such that the notches are not aligned? Any suggestions? Thanks guys.

Dude, don't install your chip backwards! It probably won't hurt anything, but a phone call to Protomotive would be the first line of attack to me.

[polizei]

Got her started today. There's a problem with Protomotive chip that I'll have to look into on Monday, so we got it running temporarily on the stock Carrera chip. It sounds like the turbo starts spooling around 2000rpm, but I can't be certain about that as I was NOT getting a reading on the boost gauge. Didn't take it above 3000rpm because of the chip. Hopefully I'll get to take it through its paces later this week. The exhaust sounds great, Ben!

[mb911]

Originally Posted by polizei

Got her started today. There's problem with Protomotive chip that I'll have to look into on Monday, so we got it running temporarily on the stock Carrera chip. It sounds like the turbo starts spooling around 2000rpm, but I can't be certain about that as I was getting a reading on the boost gauge. Didn't take it above 3000rpm because of the chip. Hopefully I'll get to take it through its paces later this week. The exhaust sounds great, Ben!

thats great news what turbo did you go with again?

[polizei]

Originally Posted by mb911

thats great news what turbo did you go with again?

I went with the ball bearing Precision SC6162SPR. It has the EXACT same compressor wheel as a Garret GT35-r. They've modified the compressor housing for even better spool up characteristics than the Garrett. It has a .63 AR rear housing.

[WERK I]

Andy,
I look forward to hearing your results. With that low AR, that compressor wheel, combined in a high compression engine, should prove to be very interesting.

As far as the polarity notch on the chip.... If you stare down at the top of the board, you will see all the notches on the chips populating the board facing the same direction. Always, always, always.....install the chip in the same orientation as all the other chips that are on the board.

[911st]

Are you running it in twin plug mode?

I am not an expert but I would not run it on the stock chip unless I disabled one of the spark plug circuts or set the Fuel Quality Switch to retard the spark.

The best.

[NathanUK]

So long as he keeps out of boost he should be fine for now.

[polizei]

Originally Posted by 911st

Are you running it in twin plug mode?

I am not an expert but I would not run it on the stock chip unless I disabled one of the spark plug circuts or set the Fuel Quality Switch to retard the spark.

The best.

"I was only below the hard deck for a few moments. There was no danger, so I took the shot."

Yes, we did have it in twin plug mode. We drove it granny-like for 10 minutes, never exceeding 3000 rpm. Just enough to make sure there weren't any glaring issues. Then we checked for leaks. I won't be running it again until we get the chip issue resolved. I'm shocked with how early the turbo started spooling without being anywhere near tuned in. It should be an exciting week!

[911st]

Again, I am not an expert but the timing for a twin plug is different than a single plug and needs to fire later as it burns the mix faster. Running a the stock timming w a twin plug set up is in effect forced pre detonation.

With the rising rate fuel reg I would am not be come concerned about there being enough fuel.

Lets put it this way. If you built a twin plug race motor and ran a shingle plug ignition timing advance and curve you would see a failure.

Again, playing w the fuel quality switch should help w the timming and fueling untill your chip comes.

[polizei]

It sounds like there was a programming error with the chip. Should have it back in a few days.

We had to clock the fuel line leading to the rrfpr and fuel pressure gauge so we could get the pipe from the turbo to the air filter installed. It's a shame that the nice big air filter is buried back there. Here's a pretty much final picture of what the engine bay looks like.




Driver's side rear wheel well:

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by polizei

.......... It's a shame that the nice big air filter is buried back there. Here's a pretty much final picture of what the engine bay looks like.

Andy,
Yeah, who-dah thunk adding one device, such as a turbocharger, could clutter up the engine bay as much as it does.

Looking good!

[polizei]

Originally Posted by WERK-I

Andy,
Yeah, who-dah thunk adding one device, such as a turbocharger, could clutter up the engine bay as much as it does.

Looking good!

Seriously. The Germans and their efficiency didn't leave us much room to play with. There's about the same amount of clutter as there was before:




After:

[EPorsche]

How did you plum the tubing in the forward part of the engine bay? The part we can't see.

[polizei]

Originally Posted by EPorsche

How did you plum the tubing in the forward part of the engine bay? The part we can't see.

I'll take some pics for you tonight... should've taken some before I put the bumper back on. Basically the turbo sits about 3-5 inches to the left of the typical position in order to get around the twin plug distributor (we had to hack the J-pipe). The charge pipe comes straight up from that position to where you see the BOV in the lower left of the engine. the air filter plumbing was pretty tricky. Here's a good example of a run-on sentence: coming out of the turbo, the pipe takes an immediate 90 degree bend towards the front of the car, then another 90 degree bend into the engine compartment through the hole that was intended for the heater hose (backdated LHS engine tin), then another 90 degree bend towards the front bumper once inside the engine compartment, then stretches up to the the blue silicone elbow you see in the top left of the picture above, then a final 90 degree bend to the right in the rear of the engine compartment, finally leading to the air filter.

You can see the 90 degree aluminum bend leading up to the engine compartment here:

[spence88mph]

Great stuff Andy! Looks excellent.

I hope your plastic elbow thingy stays on longer than mine did, if the car all of sudden wont idle and looses lots of power check there.

I have a company ARE (www.are.com.au) designing an intercooler for my car, I'll let you know how it goes, you might be interested in a 2for buy. Right now they're thinking of spliting the charge to two small coolers either side of the bay, I'll PM you.

[x98boardwell]

Question,

Not that I'm an expert by any means, just curious.

Won't all of the 90 degree bends that you have effect the effieciency of the turbo and create a delay of boost?

Thanks,
Bryan

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by x98boardwell

Question,

Not that I'm an expert by any means, just curious.

Won't all of the 90 degree bends that you have effect the effieciency of the turbo and create a delay of boost?

Thanks,
Bryan

A lot of his turns are 45 degrees and both versions of the 930 have some serious plumbing involved.