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76 930 brake upgrade, my understanding after searching archives

I will soon be the proud new and 2nd owner a 76 silver turbo 47K miles. The engine runs beautifully and after talking to several porsche nuts, i have decided very little in the way of engine modifications. The biggest problem is the car comes with dismal 15 wheels and the 911s brakes which were not confidence inspiring.

I want a brake and tire upgrade. I plan on a few DE events per year. But no dedicated track car. Here is my take after synthesizing all the advice over the last few months from rennlist and talking to numerous vendors.

The 15s gotta go. I can find some 7 and 9 x 16s which will add more rubber, however, not excessive weight. I considered 17s lindseys ect but would rather see if the Jeff Alton machined fuchs will ever come through. Anyways, 17s maybe more weight than i want and i dont want anything aftermarket, i like the fuchs look.

Correct me if im wrong, but the trailing arms and spindles are the same spacing as the standard 911, so the 930 brakes from the 78+ wont bolt on.

I have read through all the other options but the boxsters arent good enough for the track and the 964/944t seem like a pain for machining ect. I really want to go bigger than the carrera upgrade or the monoblock upgrade.

I looked into the brembo gtp lightweight kit, and it was very attractive except that it will not fit under the 7 inch fuchs upfront. apparently, i need the 951 fuchs( i assume an 8 inch) I figured the brembos are newer design, possibly lighter than the 930 but now i would a different wheel upfront.

Additionally the 930s require some significant machining. I dont like it.

So with all this being said, a 16 inch wheel keeps me fairly light and adds some reasonable rubber with the stock oem look. I want at least 930 stopping power because everyone says, this is plenty for a few DEs and keeps me lighter than the big reds. Big reds wont fit under the wheels anyways.

Finally, my questions for brake gurus for Mr. Bill or Mr. Steve or anyone who can answer.
1.Can i change the trailing arms, spindles to the 78+930 and just bolt on the 930s or is this cost prohibitive.
2.I assume the master cylinder gets changed to the 78+930 mc, is this the boosted one.
3.Which is better, the 930s and pay for the entire kit or the new brembo and then source some more upfront fuchs from a 951. Does anyone have back to back experience with stopping power, fade resistance with the gtp - l vs. the 930.

Thanks. i was fairly underwhelmed trying to find advice for this wacky year (76-77) 930.

Last edited by osu s2k; 05-07-2008 at 06:50 PM..
Old 05-07-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osu s2k View Post
i was fairly underwhelmed trying to find advice for this wacky year (76-77) 930.
I know what you mean, I was getting ready to post the same question, looking to update to the 78+ front and rear brakes. I'm running the optional 16x7 and 16x9 fuchs on my car and want to avoid going to 17s... for now, so I've got to stick with the 930 calipers.

From what I gathered the fronts are fairly easy, you should be able to swap the strut assembly from a later year - up to 89 with no issues.

It's my understanding that the rear trailing arms for our early cars are mounted in a different location, therefore you cant swap the rear arms. I've seen it here in a few places that with some patience the rear calipers can be bolted to your existing assembly with some spacer washers - the only issue being the centering of the caliper on the disk - I'm not sure if the later rotor fits with no change.

If you want floating rotors, stay away from the "turbo look or widebody" parts, I believe they use the same 1 piece rotor like ours, the 78+ use a floating rotor - more expensive to replace, but a "correct" upgrade to our cars (plus they look cooler).

I'm spending all my $ tuning and replacing all my worn out engine parts, so I havent gotten serious about the swap, so I'm not 100% on the above. Someone please feel free to point out if I'm mistaken.

Next on my list - real 930 brakes, intercooler that fits under the stock whaletail...

By the way, let me know if and when you are getting ready to ditch the 15s, i need some 15s for my 914 track car (the 914 will eventually get my s brakes from my 76).
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Infraredcalvin - AKA Pat
'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case
Old 05-07-2008, 09:36 PM
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What a fabulous topic!

I too am a second owner of a silver 76 turbo (milage 54615) . And I'm looking at brakes/wheels as well. (and am genuinely interested in hearing about intercooler options for the early tail as well)

I'll be following this thread carefully!

kim.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:44 PM
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930 front calipers are a direct bolt-on. The rears need to be machined for the different bolt spacing, not a big deal. Vehicle Craft in N.J. & Rennsport in Oregon both sell complete kits as well as machine the rear calipers. You'll probably use a couple of washers to center the calipers over the disks. I heard the floating rotors are noisier than non-floating but you should confirm it. You could use a 23 mm m.c. if you don't want to go to a boosted m.c..
You might compare a 1 pc. 9x17 fuchs to a 9x16 for the weight difference. The only problem with the 16's are tire availability.
79 930/DP935
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:44 AM
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so from this i gather, a simple diy way would be to do a direct bolt on of the 930 rotors and calipers and have the rears machined to fit.

Is the 76 a boosted mc or nonboosted. Which mc replaces the 19mm in this car?

On a german site i found that the 16 x 7 fuchs weigh 6.4kg=14.1 lbs. and the 16 x 9 weigh 7.5kg=16.5 lbs. This seems excessively light.

I am less impressed with the gtp lightweight kit, i am reading about too many issues related to clearance.

If my 16s come through i will get rid of the 15s.

Last edited by osu s2k; 05-08-2008 at 03:24 PM..
Old 05-08-2008, 03:18 PM
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The 23mm Mercedes m/c replaces the 19mm for a non-boost m/c.
If you get a kit everything is included. I went with a kit from VCI when I converted to 930 brakes on our '73 track car. Then I transferred the kit to our '75 Carrera a few years back.
Old 05-08-2008, 03:44 PM
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Now i m thinking about 930s upfront and gtp lightweight in the rears. They might not match but i cant imagine you would see much through the fuchs.
Old 05-08-2008, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osu s2k View Post
so from this i gather, a simple diy way would be to do a direct bolt on of the 930 rotors and calipers and have the rears machined to fit.

Is the 76 a boosted mc or nonboosted. Which mc replaces the 19mm in this car?

On a german site i found that the 16 x 7 fuchs weigh 6.4kg=14.1 lbs. and the 16 x 9 weigh 7.5kg=16.5 lbs. This seems excessively light.

I am less impressed with the gtp lightweight kit, i am reading about too many issues related to clearance.

If my 16s come through i will get rid of the 15s.
The 76 does not have the vaccum booster in the front trunk. It was added in 77. I think that is what you are talking about. You can see it if you have a booster because it sits right next to the brake fluid container about a foot behind the fuse box in your front trunk.

Take a look for yourself. If it ain't there, than you don't have vaccuum boost.



My Fuchs with tires included are amazingly light. I believe those figures are close to accurate.

You also have to include the weight of the spacers to be fair when comparing to a 17 inch wheel, if that 17 inch wheel does not require spacers. Lindsey wheels do require spacers, I believe.

Last edited by DDDD; 05-09-2008 at 10:23 AM..
Old 05-09-2008, 10:16 AM
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77 930

I have a 77 3 litre turbo and have the same issues regarding brakes.

I also want to keep the 16 inch Fuchs, 7=9s.

I have fitted the 930 Turbo rear calipers to the rear, and have a set of 993 Turbo calipers for the front. I have had clearance problems, but it seems if I use a total spacing of approx 53 mm ( including the spacer) the rims should work. Question is whether to use adapters to make this up, or a combination of spacer and adapter.

One concern I have is the stress on the hub, various people who run this type of caliper, use large spacers on race cars, managing to fit the assembly even under 15 inch rims, so i would imagine that if they can sustain abnormal stresses in a racing environment, I should be ok for road use- or am I incorrect in this assumption?

I should clear the fenders with the 205/55R16's on the 7's, but any input from those who have tried would be welcome.
Old 05-11-2008, 11:59 AM
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Our race car came with 928 S4 front calipers & C2 turbo rear calipers. I didn't like the brake bias at all, and didn't want to add a proportion valve. Too much front brake causing the car to nose dive under hard braking. Something to consider when mixing any front & rear calipers. I went back to 930 front & rears.

The 944 7x16's have more rear web clearance than the 911 so you may be able to get away with a smaller spacer. If you want 8's on the front then get an 8x16 from an '86 944 turbo (one year only). Same web clearance as the 7's and about 1/2" more backspacing than a 911 8". But you would still need to use a spacer to clear the caliper.

I wouldn't be mixing adapters & spacers together. I would go to a longer studs and spacers.

It sounds like if you went to a stock 930 front caliper you could fit either a 7" or 8" with 225's.
Old 05-11-2008, 01:43 PM
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