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Hmm... so I guess this means I get another go at it. I really hate to mess with anything on that left side though.
After taking Les' advice... I went out this morning around 5:45am before getting ready for work. Lo and behold both the #1 and #4 intake valves started moving at the same time. So, I guess that just might happen to mean that I got the damn timing upside down on #4. I am drawing pretty pictures right now to try to graphically show this to myself. If I get them right and they make sense I will post here for future posterity.
I know I am making this harder then it should be, but can someone please confirm the measurement that I shoudl see at #1 for TDC overlap. Is .8mm correct? Is there a web site anywhere that has the stock 930 turbo cam specs?
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSPTurtle View Post
Hmm... so I guess this means I get another go at it. I really hate to mess with anything on that left side though.
After taking Les' advice... I went out this morning around 5:45am before getting ready for work. Lo and behold both the #1 and #4 intake valves started moving at the same time. So, I guess that just might happen to mean that I got the damn timing upside down on #4. I am drawing pretty pictures right now to try to graphically show this to myself. If I get them right and they make sense I will post here for future posterity.
I know I am making this harder then it should be, but can someone please confirm the measurement that I shoudl see at #1 for TDC overlap. Is .8mm correct? Is there a web site anywhere that has the stock 930 turbo cam specs?
I think the number in the back of Wayne's bood is 0.70mm. I'm not sure you are doing your pre-load correctly. Did you zero your Tell tale after pre-load?
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-08-2008, 07:45 AM
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Turbo Manual - Porsche

Here is the cam timing spec in the turbo manual that I have...
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:21 AM
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I assume by "preload" you are talking about setting the valve lash?
The above manual description is misleading to me at least. "Timing with 1mm valve clearance"??? Does this mean that you should set the lash to 1mm instead of .1mm (like you would normally adjust the valves to) when timing the cams? The procedure that I read was to set the lash and .01mm (like normal) and then time the cams with the intake being open .7mm at TDC.
I think the 1mm lash would require you to have a degree wheel to adjust the valve opening at 3 degrees ATDC to have the intake valve begin opening.
Argh... anyone live anywhere near Melbourne Florida??? All the beer you can drink during the setting of the cams is on me!!!
Right now I have the lash set to .1mm and am looking for the intake valve to be open .7mm at TDC. Is that correct???
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:58 AM
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There is very little info on cam timing in the turbo manual. The only other info to what I posted above is the following on the previous page. I have no experience with cam timing myself just have access to the manual while at work . This is an interesting thread and I know I would have the same questions if I was the one wrenching.....it's always easy if you know how eh!

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Old 07-08-2008, 09:52 AM
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Dan,
That is what my manual says too... I think the little spec books have more info but those are hard to come by anymore.
I really appreciate everyone taking the time to weigh in with their thoughts and experiences!!! It is nice to know that there is a support network out there. Especially when doing something new for the first time. But, then again, if you don't do it the first time then how do you ever become experienced? I am currently researching whether or not to advance the timing for any benefit. Hey, it is something I can do when I don't have a motor and wrench in front of me to experiment with
By the way, I think I am a new fan of the backside method for setting the lash... seems to be a little easier to get the gauge into. I have almost detroyed my brand new special feeler gauge just doing #1 and #4 so I am back to the old standard feeler with the backside method
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:34 AM
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Remember that if # 1 cylinder is at TDC , it could be there on the compression
stroke or the exhaust stroke. You want to adjust those valves when #1 is on
the compression stroke. The crank turns two full revolutions and the cam turns
four times per cycle. You can tell if #1 is on the COMPRESSION stroke. Look at
the rockers, both should have an equal amout of play. Adjust both valves for that
cylinder. Turn the engine 90 deg in normal rotation to adjust the next cylinder
for firing order.
Old 07-08-2008, 11:44 AM
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Some info that I have been able to corroborate to multiple sources... for posterity
911 Turbo Camshaft
Intake-
Total Lift: 9.35mm
Lift at TDC Overlap: .8mm
Valve Lash: .01mm
Exhaust-
Total Lift: 8.6mm
Valve Lash: .01mm

If anyone has any additional specification data please feel free to add for the collective
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:14 PM
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After three nights of quality time with my motor I have finally got it timed!!! Thanks to everyone on here. I was in fact 180 out on #4. Once I flipped it I only has to move it about 3/4 of a tooth to get it dead nuts on .7mm at TDC overlap. Now I am off to set the valve lash on all the cylinders... at this rate that should take about a month
Is there any benefit (other then the fact that this is my first "at bat" or as Les said "first rodeo") to setting up the dial indicator on #2 and #5 to verify that what I did on number 1 and 4 is correct? Of course the cam is solid, but is there any benefit at all to spending the 10 minutes to jig it up and take the measurements?
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:21 PM
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It wouldn't hurt. The experience may help you in the future too. What's 10 minutes when you've spent this much time on it.
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Last edited by NathanUK; 07-09-2008 at 12:53 PM..
Old 07-09-2008, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSPTurtle View Post
After three nights of quality time with my motor I have finally got it timed!!! Thanks to everyone on here. I was in fact 180 out on #4. Once I flipped it I only has to move it about 3/4 of a tooth to get it dead nuts on .7mm at TDC overlap. Now I am off to set the valve lash on all the cylinders... at this rate that should take about a month
Is there any benefit (other then the fact that this is my first "at bat" or as Les said "first rodeo") to setting up the dial indicator on #2 and #5 to verify that what I did on number 1 and 4 is correct? Of course the cam is solid, but is there any benefit at all to spending the 10 minutes to jig it up and take the measurements?
Hi,
Just to understand the interaction between cam-crank-ignition timing, I'm thinkin' it wouldn't be time wasted!
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 07-09-2008, 03:58 PM
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So, I made the extra measurements and guess what... when you get to the correct 120 degree mark on the crank pulley the intake valve is open .7mm Funny how that works.
Tonight I am going to try to summon the courage to bolt on the chain covers... cams are torqued, valve lash is set, things are clean. No more excuses, time ot pull up my skirt and just get on with it. Heck, the worst thing that happens is I blow up the motor and have to pull it out and start all over again.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSPTurtle View Post
So, I made the extra measurements and guess what... when you get to the correct 120 degree mark on the crank pulley the intake valve is open .7mm Funny how that works.
Tonight I am going to try to summon the courage to bolt on the chain covers... cams are torqued, valve lash is set, things are clean. No more excuses, time ot pull up my skirt and just get on with it. Heck, the worst thing that happens is I blow up the motor and have to pull it out and start all over again.
Party on Garth!
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:33 PM
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Well, I did check it one more time before bolting up the covers (I just could not resist). Believe it or not, nothing changed while I was at work?!?!?! Covers are all torqued up... just now waiting for all the different crush washers to arrive to get all the oil lines tightened up. I am on to the flywheel... see you in the next topic!!!
And thanks again to all for the encouragement and wisdom imparted... much appreciated!!!
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:31 PM
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Thanks for sharing DSP! I have a set of 3.6 cams on the workbench... taunting me, and I'll keep this bookmarked. My biggest fear in installing them (besides a bonehead move I perfected on a GSX-R cam install in '97) is being stricken with Whileyerinthereitis. Y'know, "Wull since the motor's out and the cams is out..." and I don't have the cabbage to port and twin-plug anytime soon.
You couldn't have done it wiser; taking your time, double (triple, etc) checking your work, and making sure the experienced members gave you the thumbsup. Knarfling up this motor certainly would not be so easy to absorb as that GSX-R motor was (and that wasn't cheap!).
Someday I should start a thread asking everyone to post up their worst bonehead moves. We could all stand to learn a lot from the expensive mistakes we can share as DIY'ers.
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:37 PM
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After reading this thread I am officially scared to install cams. I'll have to bookmark this and read it about 15 times before I can even begin to understand what's going on lol.
Old 07-10-2008, 09:10 AM
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Yeah hehe, I read it twice...

OK, just to clarify... You set it up at #1TDC (on overlap) at 0.7mm lift on the inlet valve of #1 and when you checked #4TDC (on overlap) you also got 0.7mm lift on the inlet valve of #4?

TIA
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 07-10-2008, 10:06 AM
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Yup... .7MM intake valve open at TDC for number one then rotate 360 degrees and you should be at .7MM intake valve open on number four.
You absolutely cannot do this without a Z block and a dial indicator. I got mine from our host. Again, don't even think about trying to look at it and understand until you mount the Z block and dial indicator. Once you see how the measurement is taken as you spin the crank and the valve goes up and down it all will make perfect sense.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:26 AM
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