Anyone know anything about this DP 935?

[WERK I]

This car has been on eBay for sometime now and hasn't been moving. The most recent listing the owner has added a "buy it now" @ $42K. I think the DP's are probably the best looking slants out there and yet, this car has problems selling. Are there mechanical issues or something you guys in Florida may know? Seems like an excellent deal to me. What do you guys think?

Porsche DP 935

[Noah930]

Something smells funny, IMO. Unless I could see the car and paperwork in person, I'm not brave enough to bid on it.

[RarlyL8]

I can't imagine 1.4bar being good for a 930 CIS engine.
Beautiful car, looks period correct.

[Facey]

there is a dp935 for sale here on the pp boards, he is a vancouver pca member, Jeff grant i believe, i have driven shot gun with him a few times, car is amazing, really really nice.... i would recommend it to anyone looking for a slant nose... i think his was owned by pete rose.... adds value, i guess.

[gumba]

I don't think there is anything funny about this car. He bought it about the same time I bought mine and I started the DP site. I think the economy is hitting some folks harder than others. I also believe he's a car dealer and hasn't driven the car much.

He and Jeff both have had their cars listed for sale for quite a bit more and both have been dropping the price, sign of the times. Jeff's has had a full engine rebuild and this one hasn't. They are pretty close in asking price, but no sure of the overall condition of either car.

To me the biggest wild card and expense is the motor. If I was interested I would pick the color you prefer and have a PPI done on that car.

I have the DP option sheet listed on my site. You could use that as a reference to see how optioned each car is. http://www.dp935registry.com/index.php?page=text&id=specsheet

No affiliation with either car.

Harold
http://www.dp935registry.com

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by gumba

I don't think there is anything funny about this car. He bought it about the same time I bought mine and I started the DP site. I think the economy is hitting some folks harder than others. I also believe he's a car dealer and hasn't driven the car much.

He and Jeff both have had their cars listed for sale for quite a bit more and both have been dropping the price, sign of the times. Jeff's has had a full engine rebuild and this one hasn't. They are pretty close in asking price, but no sure of the overall condition of either car.

To me the biggest wild card and expense is the motor. If I was interested I would pick the color you prefer and have a PPI done on that car.

I have the DP option sheet listed on my site. You could use that as a reference to see how optioned each car is. http://www.dp935registry.com/index.php?page=text&id=specsheet

No affiliation with either car.

Harold
http://www.dp935registry.com

Okay, I have read articles at your site that always mention around 1.1 bar of boost and 400 hp MAXIMUM. How does this guy come up with 1.4 bar and 500 hp on a 'vintage' DP car?

Also, how on earth is that engine getting enough fuel at 1.4 bar and 6000 rpms? What did Kremer do to the CIS to achieve that kind of boost without detonation?

[kleinbbc]

If that is the car that was bought in Tampa at Mercedes dealer about 3 years ago. It has a salvage
history. I think it was the front right that had a hard hit. It was traded in from a widow..I think the car sold for under 25k dealer wanted it gone they even had it up on ebay for sometime. I did look the car over and it looked nice.

Just looked at the link and its the red car in the middle you can see the mercedes cars behind..Thats from Mercedes of Tampa.

[gumba]

I personally don't believe any claimed h.p. reading without a dyno. I've also seen dyno's vary 30+ h.p. which makes it tougher to believe some of the h.p. numbers.

Some guy posted his dyno numbers on this site that were 600+h.p. with cis, so I believe it's possible.

Who knows who worked on the car from the time it was purchased to the present, hence the ppi. If the claimed 500 h.p. was important I would want the car dynoed prior to purchase.

My 3.5 dynoed at 390 h.p. @ 0.9. The shop told me I could run it up to 1.2, but I have it set at 1.1.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by kleinbbc

If that is the car that was bought in Tampa at Mercedes dealer about 3 years ago. It has a salvage
history. I think it was the front right that had a hard hit. It was traded in from a widow..I think the car sold for under 25k dealer wanted it gone they even had it up on ebay for sometime. I did look the car over and it looked nice.

Just looked at the link and its the red car in the middle you can see the mercedes cars behind..Thats from Mercedes of Tampa.

Link please!

[voitureltd]

I did not think Kremer, as a rule, built the Motors for the DP cars, especially in the later 80s DP Motorsport marketed cars. DP started by manufactured areodynamically improved body parts for Kremer designed cars starting many years before the 935 K2

[gumba]

Kremer also bought the bodywork from DP and built their own cars with what ever motor the client wanted. That's why some say DP935 and some say Kremer.
I would think the motor specs were based on who built the cars. There's an article showing a DP with a RUF motor. The U.S. DP's sold through the dealers had stock 930 motors. My car was converted by Andial and came with a 3.5.
Who knows what the customers had done to the motors after they got the car.

I thought the dealer has to state that the car has a salvage title.

[Schwarzeritter]

It is a very valid truth that various dyno's provide different numbers.

In the UnitedStates I have experinced that the Mustang Dyno's infact
read much lower then that of a Dyno Jet or Dyno Pack which read much higher.
Often I'll find very disgruntled individuals because of this.

It also is important that the dyno-engineer is infact doing his job correctly.
You can end up with false or in accurate or strange numbers and values.

Good luck & Happy hunting.

Originally Posted by gumba

I personally don't believe any claimed h.p. reading without a dyno. I've also seen dyno's vary 30+ h.p. which makes it tougher to believe some of the h.p. numbers.

Some guy posted his dyno numbers on this site that were 600+h.p. with cis, so I believe it's possible.

Who knows who worked on the car from the time it was purchased to the present, hence the ppi. If the claimed 500 h.p. was important I would want the car dynoed prior to purchase.

My 3.5 dynoed at 390 h.p. @ 0.9. The shop told me I could run it up to 1.2, but I have it set at 1.1.

[RarlyL8]

I use the same dyno and the same guy for every test. Not so much for the gross numbers but for consistancy. I trust the differences I see when making changes in the engine.

600HP or 1.4bar would require significant CIS/engine modification to live a long life. Typical CIS mods support ~500CHP (~425WHP).

[DDDD]

Okay I talked to the guy.

It is the Tampa car, he did get it from a widow.

Better yet, he had to have the top end of the engine rebuilt because it had a cracked cylinder sleeve.

I imagine that 1.4 bar of boost with CIS management is capable of cracking a sleeve...

I don't think this guy actually understands the history of his car because he still doesn't know how the CIS is set up to compensate for the boost.

[MBruns]

I know that car, It was owned by Gary Garbrecht from Winter Haven, Fl. I had a Porsche service shop and did most of the service work on it at the time, It did spend 90% of its life in an air conditioned garage, Gary died several years ago and I knew that it was sold but lost track, as far as the power numbers it did not have that then, the usual bolt on stuff, most likely 3.4, it still has CIS so that will tell ya its lucky to make 400 at the crank. It was a very nice car and got what ever it needed.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by gumba

Kremer also bought the bodywork from DP and built their own cars with what ever motor the client wanted. That's why some say DP935 and some say Kremer.
I would think the motor specs were based on who built the cars. There's an article showing a DP with a RUF motor. The U.S. DP's sold through the dealers had stock 930 motors. My car was converted by Andial and came with a 3.5.
Who knows what the customers had done to the motors after they got the car.

I thought the dealer has to state that the car has a salvage title.

You cannot use the Porsche name with out their consent. DP motorsports say DP motorsports . Porsche Kremer identification is only used on Porsche Kremer built cars. DP started as a body builder back in the early 70s and got their name in lights by building aerodynamically advanced bodys for Kremer . As they became more affluent they began to market there own cars with their own sourced running gear . They are not Porsche Kremers. Kremer was mostly into race cars but did market a K5 street car ( why I do not know as it was not very attractive compared to DP Motorsports offering and to the few original K2 bodied cars that Kremer did actually built).. The DP 935 was a body DP Motorsports made street usable by modifying the original K2 body that Kremer had abandoned for the later K3 Porsche Kremer. Porsche Kremer did build few for street with the original K2 race body,( see photos ) one designed by and built for M Andretti, and was a real Porsche Kremer built by them with a special orderded original K2 935 body from DP motorsports. In general, I did not think that Kremer built the running gear DP motorsport , but may have made a few.

[voitureltd]

The above mentioned spec sheet HP is probably crank HP on the Kremer dyno, before the addition of Smog pump,air conditioning and a more restrictive exhaust system. It is probably less now to make it US legal. It still kicks good but is more like 360 at the wheels. I have a TT Twin plugged 600+ hp motor I keep thinking I would like to put in there as most Kremer built K2s were race built and had high HP TT motors. Most say leave it as built and stick the motor into something else.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by DDDD

Okay, I have read articles at your site that always mention around 1.1 bar of boost and 400 hp MAXIMUM. How does this guy come up with 1.4 bar and 500 hp on a vintage DP car?

Also, how on earth is that engine getting enough fuel at 1.4 bar and 6000 rpms? What did Kremer do to the CIS to achieve that kind of boost without detonation?

DP began building as a body panel builder for Kremer. Kremer is the real deal when it comes to the furthest development of the 935 and their racing success even against the Porsche factory cars when in competition with each other. Andial of CA built some Killer 935 race cars after Kremer ( 1984 ) but the series had moved on at that point. DP did their own thing when it came to theirproduction car with motor build technology from many sources, not necessarily attributed to Kremer.

[gumba]

HUMMMMM, bit confused on your point.

What I said was Kremer bought the bodywork from DP. Then installed their own running gear, suspension, wheels & tires, etc. That's why some cars have the Kremer script instead of DP.

There was at least one U.S. Porsche dealer importing DP's. Which was my reference to some DP's having stock 930 motors to meet the emissions of that time (could be wrong)

My reference to Andial was anyone could buy the DP package and installed it. The engine displacement and h.p. would have been clients choice.

These cars have been around for 20+ yrs. who knows what's been done to the motors, and by whom.

[voitureltd]

I guess I was trying to establish the difference between the companies, DP Motorsports and Porsche Kremer. Porsche allowed Kremer to be called Porsche Kremer and Dp is DP Motorsports. DP started out as a panel builder for Kremer race cars. The Kremer Brothers company built almost all Porsche Kremer race cars with that K2 body and just a few ( I only know of 2) Porsche Kremer street 2 cars ( very rare, if you or anyone else knows of another Porsche Kremer street K2 I would like to know of it as I have a number of folks that would like one). Whereas DP Motorsport built many street cars with a modified from the original race car K2 body ( at least 75 ) and additionally sold kits in various stages, for street use in the same time period ( late 70s on). Where as Kremer carried the 935 racing on after Porsche factory last 935 "Moby Dick" with their approval. Its about defining who built what and when. Kremer was primarily a race car company before and through the 935 racing endeavor ( 60s through 1984) and DP was building cars for street use once they became known for their excellent bodywork . Kremer company is still very active in rebuilding,racing and maintaining the cars they originally built even though I believe both Manfred and Erwin have recently passed away.