Latest Project - Headers

[RarlyL8]

The delta lean mixture when going from hot to cold environment is much less problematic than the effect of hot ambient air on engine cooling and detonation.

The fuel delivery curve of CIS is fixed for the given OEM engine parameters. The acceptable range that the OEM fuel curve will safely service is breached ~325whp.

I don't have stock head studs or rods. ARP. Turbos that perform at 1.0bar @ 7000rpm are not for stock engines.

[s_morrison57]

Great job Brian, guess I better start brown nosing the wife so I can swing a set, is the added cost of the boxes going to effect your selling price by much? Do you have a price with heat yet, and when will we be able to get our sweaty hands on these headers with heat?

[RarlyL8]

Thank you Scott. The exchangers were delayed by a few weeks due to prototyping issues. I think we are back on track now. I still must test them before mass producing. Exchangers will be sold separate from headers as they are an accessory and will bolt on after the headers are installed in the car. I'm trying to keep pricing down to $100 for each side.

[RarlyL8]

I just got an e-mail from a client who had a set of my headers installed last week on his stock engine. He tells me he doesn't know how much power was gained but the rear wheels break loose now! Ha!

[kdubb]

I am looking to purchase a new set of headers with heat. I was looking toward B&B, but will wait until you provide pricing on yours. I have a SOK 3.2 and I am looking for 1 3/4" primaries. Will you be manufacturing different sizes?

[RarlyL8]

We have 1.5" and 1.625" right now and plan to add 1.75". I'm still swallowing R&D and fixturing/tooling costs which have breached 5 figures so no date set on fixturing 1.75" just yet. All sizes will have heat exchangers.

[Yargk]

Hi Brian,

Super sorry to be anal, but I will buy a set of your headers if you slap on a set of B and B headers and take it to the dyno. I just want to see back to back plots with the same turbo, tuning, muffler, etc. Otherwise, I'm not sure. I don't think anyone else is making a bad decision by not having this information, you have beautiful headers. I'm just stating what it would take to make me jump in.

Thanks for your time

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Yargk

Hi Brian,

Super sorry to be anal, but I will buy a set of your headers if you slap on a set of B and B headers and take it to the dyno. I just want to see back to back plots with the same turbo, tuning, muffler, etc. Otherwise, I'm not sure. I don't think anyone else is making a bad decision by not having this information, you have beautiful headers. I'm just stating what it would take to make me jump in.

Thanks for your time

Now I may be biased as I build these headers for Brian but I don't understand why B&B would be a competitor when they don't acomplish the same goals? B&B offer a great marketing scheme and their product is shiney and have decent HP though they lack support, use of stock oil lines so you have to use theirs, and they require you to use their drip tank, and use a sub standard WG circuit unless you upgrade when ordering to the larger style. Though I do understand it strictly from a data comparison.

[911st]

Ben,

All good points and would also give the nod to Brian on a better design theory and probably customer service.

However, what a great opportunity to make a lot of B&B trade up sales!

And why not! If it as good as it seems, why not take on the market leader and show them up for even more sales potential!

After all, it is human nature to believe that what you have is already the best. I bet many B&B owners are not totally buying the idea this system makes a big improvement over there B&B.

A head to head would be hard for them to refute and get them to pony up.

Also, when B&B was building market share, the sale was just against the stock euro/late 930 system. That was there comparison.

With this system, the market is now the B&B shorties against Brian's truly equal length headers.

If the system is so good that it might add 50hp to a 300hp motor with euro headers and a sport muffler system -- it should stomp the B&B's!

That is a bigger gain of any of the following single mods can make: a bigger more more modern turbo (apx 10-20 hp), larger more efficient intercooler (apx 20hp), cams & ports (apx 20hp.), or a 1 bar spring (apx 25hp on a 300hp motor).

If this can be validated it would over night make this the single first mod any 930 owner should make!

Unfortunately history is also littered exhaust mod claims that did not hold up on a dyno so this is also an opportunity to keep the nay sayer's at bay.

As such a good shoot out needs to accurately monitor AFR and boost to be comparable. It also needs to start early in the rpm range to show the increased pre-boost HP being claimed.

There has to be a set of B&B's some one can lend for such a test. We are probably taking about a days labor, another $125 dyno fee, and some shipping costs.

The reward in terms of increased sales could be significant.

And why not!

[gsmith660]

With the numbers shown here I bet we see alot of headers for sale soon. Brian and Ben when I get going on my project (whenever that is) you will be hearing from me for several things.

[WERK I]

C'mon guys, give this whole comparo-test a rest! If you can't see the advantages in Brian's design over B&B's, you never will. The product will sell like all good products, by word-of-mouth throughout the Porsche community.

Brian and Ben,
There's one thing you guys haven't done.........you haven't given it a Product Name yet!
Can't use "B&B".. LOL
Maybe you can start a new thread before the product launches for ideas?

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by WERK I

C'mon guys, give this whole comparo-test a rest! If you can't see the advantages in Brian's design over B&B's, you never will. The product will sell like all good products, by word-of-mouth throughout the Porsche community.

Brian and Ben,
There's one thing you guys haven't done.........you haven't given it a Product Name yet!
Can't use "B&B".. LOL
Maybe you can start a new thread before the product launches for ideas?

+1 how about rarelyl8 headers

[kenikh]

We're all performance stats geeks here, so itching the B&B scratch, although IMO not necessary, would be fun to look at.

FWIW, I would not B&B (or any other header) over these now. Burns is probably the only header manufacturer with the same performance and quality, but they only do one-off jobs, with a price to match. And Brian's headers use Burns hardware!

[RarlyL8]

I appreciate the support.
If I had more time these comparisons would have already been done. I love this stuff which is why I do it. All the proceeds go back into the business right now to make more cool stuff that is missing from the marketplace, stuff like twin turbo headers for the 930. My headers are modular so you pop off the Y-assembly and pop on twin turbo secondaries. Cost is the same! I don't know anybody that makes twin turbo headers for the masses. We are making 2 sets right now and will introduce them after feedback. I also have 5 turbos that I am planning to dyno test which means the engine has to stay in the same configuration with only AFR tuning.
If I can fit in a shorty headers dyno I will. I would rather use cheap e-Bay headers instead of B&B to save some cost. I think they are the same design; correct me if that is wrong.

My headers do not use Burns collectors. I wanted to use Burns but they would not give me a price break. The merge collectors Ben came up with are very similar in design and 1/2 the cost. We did make a custom set for Brad B. that used Burns at his request. Those collectors alone were $945/set cost. Ouch! I really do not wish for short tube 304 Asian headers to be my competition but is seems that decision is out of my control so cost is an issue.

[DDDD]

If somebody buys B+Bs over Brian's headers at this point, I think they are pretty much qualified to take the short bus to school.

[turbobrat930]

Originally Posted by DDDD

If somebody buys B+Bs over Brian's headers at this point, I think they are pretty much qualified to take the short bus to school.

Short bus... thats awesome!! I think that if you have to question whether these are the right headers for you... then they are not... this is a free world... go buy a set of B&B's, GHL, or any other header system.... In fact, call Bob Holcome up and ask what he charges for a set of equal length headers for a 930.... better be sitting down. And I doubt that his will look much different from Brians....

For all of you on the fence about wanting to see a dyno result comparing set of B&B's to these headers, I am sure this will come in due time. Brian still has a day job, a family, and I am sure other commitments besides this headers making business. Plus, he is just getting off the ground.

I should be close to 600HP on my build using premium pump gas and .8 bar of boost. ( we will see how much more HP is on the table with racefuel, E-85, and a little more boost....down the road). Do you see which headers I went with??? I cam to Brian before he had completed ANY headers. Most of the design of these headers are tried and true principles...... He is NOT trying to re-invent the wheel, just make a better, higher performing, high quality product at the same level of money it would take to buy a mass produced B&B or other unit.

Enough said..

[krasuskyp]

^^^x89743568974328908974897435974978748743578^^^

def 'nuff said

I find my self awakened many nights at the haunting prospect that I do not have a set of these and won't for the foreseeable future. FAWK!

also lol on "short bus" - indeededly!

keep up the GREAT WORK Brian... amazing stuff!

[mb911]

Originally Posted by WERK I

C'mon guys, give this whole comparo-test a rest! If you can't see the advantages in Brian's design over B&B's, you never will. The product will sell like all good products, by word-of-mouth throughout the Porsche community.

Brian and Ben,
There's one thing you guys haven't done.........you haven't given it a Product Name yet!
Can't use "B&B".. LOL
Maybe you can start a new thread before the product launches for ideas?

To be honest I had very little to do with design this is Brians Project and finaced by him. I just made the collectors and of course I make the systems for him but he designed it with all the nice features we are talking about

[Yargk]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

We have 1.5" and 1.625" right now and plan to add 1.75". I'm still swallowing R&D and fixturing/tooling costs which have breached 5 figures so no date set on fixturing 1.75" just yet. All sizes will have heat exchangers.

Which applications are best for 1.5, 1.625 and 1.75 respectively?

Would a 350 whp 3.3 liter turbo do best with 1.5s?

Could a 450 whp 3.4 liter also use 1.5s?

I'm sure it's already here in the thread somewhere, but what size are your secondarys?

Thanks

[RarlyL8]

Secondaries for the standard 1.5" 930 headers are 2.0".
Primary/secondary sizing for application depends on many things. Turbos work on heat and velocity which keeps optimum tubing ID smaller than the same displacement normally aspirated. The volume of air blowing through the engine will be more important than HP in chosing the right tubing size and length. In other words, RPM and the size of the turbo, when all else is the same.
For all typical CIS 930 engines 1.5/2.0 primary/secondary is good. High HP EFI engines like Brad's move enough air that the tubing size must be increased while the velocity stays the same; a balance that does not induce lag at the bottom or choke HP at the top. This is where the merge collectors and true equal length piping helps out. The flow is tuned and more efficient.