Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
new found respect for Tial products...

Ive been searching for this hardware high and low and found some interesting information. The fasteners that come with our F46 Tial wastegates (direct bolt on) are not stainless as one would think, but titainium. I looked up the prices to these bolts and they are costly. This earns Tial even more respect from me because I see the quality of vendors they use and from a business point of view it is costly to implement hardware like this in their products. Hell yea!
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-14-2009, 06:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
sorry for the bite sized picture...
Whatever you do, do not lose these bolts when you have your car apart! They are expensive.

__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-14-2009, 06:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,224
Are you implying all Tial wastegates use titanium fasteners?
More likely stainless steel if anything..

I really really doubt it.

Maybe ones sold for competition use, but the expense of machined to size titanium bolts is huge compared to regular steel bolts and the weight difference in this quantity is small.
Old 12-14-2009, 11:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
No man- look at the hardware of your F46 gate- this is what comes with them. I have searched the web up and down and finally found the comapany that makes these. Also, the may use them to prevent any bonding issues that may occur between using like metals for the gate housing and bolts. Your right they are big money- about 12$ per bolt. However if buying in bulk, I bet they get them cheaper...
I mean I could be wrong, but I dont think anyone else makes this style of bolt out of stainless-I've looked all over trying to find them.
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-14-2009, 01:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,224
Titanium is mined mostly from from Russia and hardware made from it is machined to final shape and dimension which also raises the price.

I used to work on Preston Henn's Porsche 962 104, the 4th one made and all the fasteners on the factory cars were made from titanium so I'm familiar with it.

Real easy test:
Take a spinning grinding wheel and touch the small end of one of those bolts to it.
If you see alot of really bright long white sparks it's titanium.
Do the same with steel and there will be fewer sparks and they will be shorter and orange.

Titanium bolts are lighter weight than steel and the difference really adds up in a whole car.
Back when the 962 was winning every race, IMSA changed the rules to try and slow them down.
One rule added weight to the car so first thing most teams did was remove all the titanium fasteners and replace them with steel bolts. I remember a bucketfull of titanium nuts and bolts.

Next a big heavy slab of lead was bolted to the floor pan over to the left of the drivers feet to add weight.
AJ Foyt was not too happy when it broke loose from tha car bottoming out at Sebring and was bouncing and sliding around on the floor next to his feet... his co driver was Bob Wollek

Now that those cars are all restored and hanging out in air conditioned museums and private collections, hopefully all those titanium bolts and fasteners were kept together, saved and put back in the cars.

No way you can buy titanium bolts legally for 12 cents each.
Old 12-14-2009, 02:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
you know what lol- I got two of them holding my I/C to the mounts- I am going to try the grind test-

I can imagine that it would lighten the hell out of a car if they were used throughout. Did you ever get to drive that car? It is one of my wet dreams to obtain one someday...
The bolts were $12.00 each- not 12 cents, that would be impossible.
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-14-2009, 03:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Blackbird Pilot
 
Reaper930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The OC
Posts: 2,112
Nice - let us know how the test goes if they're Ti or not...I'm a huge fan of exotics including inconel and hastaloy-x (sp?) my dad works in the aircraft turbine (for industrial power) industry and is always throwing blades at me to look at that are the most incredible feats of machining I've ever seen, the most exotic alloys etc. Blows my mind.
__________________
Reaper | The Outlaw 930 Hotrod Gruppe Fünf Gruppen.com | The Baddest 934/5 Parts for the 911/930 D-Zug.us
Old 12-14-2009, 04:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,893
Sorry to burst your bubble TiAL uses stainless hardware. The give away is the weight. Titanium would be very very light.

Yasin
__________________
Ole Skool - wouldn't have it any other way
Old 12-15-2009, 04:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Well Yasin- you didnt have to burst my buble- I did... I did the spark test and got orange yellow sparks which were consistant with my stainless bolt from the corner hardware store...
Then when comparing the weight with the stainless bolt of roughly the same size, they had identicle weight.
Well I am disapointed to say the least, I was really hoping they were Ti, not only so I wouldnt look like an idot, but so it would prove to me that there are some manufacturers out there that are using exotic material for the sake of higher performance. I still have respect for tial as I use their products where ever I can, but I wished those bolts were titanium like I thought.
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-15-2009, 05:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
spence88mph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,577
Oh well Kris, I enjoyed the thread! I replaced pretty much all the hardware in my Motorbike with Ti, such a beautiful material, very popular in the moto world, check this out for some extreme Ti Love!

1098R Super Build - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
__________________
'89 911 M491+Turbo
'89 944 Turbo
'88 928S4
'18 C63S Coupe
Old 12-15-2009, 02:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
R.I.P.
 
drmatera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nicholson, Ga
Posts: 2,160
you know TiAL's name comes from Ti (titanium) and AL (aluminum). The owner originally designed his products with those materials in mind.
Old 12-15-2009, 02:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
juan ruiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
Garage
I was talking to them for a while at the PRI Show, very nice fellow with a great vision for quality
__________________
10.76@139-1/4 mile
0-1 mile 193MPH
Old 12-15-2009, 04:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
kilodawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,735
Garage
On high end bicycles Ti frames, components and fasteners are very common. There the weight difference can really affect the overall picture but even so on flat courses without repeated constant accelerations like in criteriums or in certain time trial events the weight impact on performance is really minimal. Makes me think that the impact to a 2500lb vehicle would be more psychological than anything else.....
__________________
'73 914 2.0, '74 911 Coupe, '74 911 Targa
'78 924, '84 944, '86 944 Turbo, '84 911 Coupe
'84 944 (current), '96 993 Coupe (current)
'73 911T Coupe (current)
'88 930S M505 (current)
Old 12-15-2009, 05:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
TiAl another great Michigan innovator.
__________________
Lincoln Phillip
87 930 Motec EFI M600 G50/50 TurboKrafted Hell Hound.
Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, SRT & AEV Dealer pm me for your Mopar needs.
"the 930 is THE CAR that started my PORSCHE love affair..." Magnus Walker
Old 12-16-2009, 12:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,426
Garage
Kris, class act eating that big bite of humble pie.
The internet is riddled with BS information, it's tough to sift out the facts.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-16-2009, 02:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Hahaha, thanks Brian.
Spence, that 1098 is pure sex- I didnt read all the way through, what did they get the weight down to? Must be fast as hell.

Here is the titanium harware supplier that I was mistaken for Tial's supplier: Stocked Titanium Fasteners
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 12-16-2009, 08:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:33 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.