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[Solved] Problem with TURBOKRAFT

Please note: This issue has been resolved by Turbokraft and all parties involved are satisfied with the outcome. -Pelican Parts Staff

Hello

Just a small feedback about my bad experience with TURBOKRAFT (Chris Caroll )

In few words , early July last year (2010 ) , I bought a stock intake manifold ( for my 964 C2 turbo) to a member of this forum. Elliot ( to name him) was very kind and he arranged an immediate shipping to Turbokraft.

The goal was to get extrusion-honing on this manifold as well as ID output machining. In the mean time , I have ordered a set of billet injector blocks with thermal barrier gaskets. The deal was simple and I clearly wrote to Chris what I need exactly.

Manifold output ID : 38mm + extrude honing
Injector block input ID: 38mm
Injector block output ID : 33mm
thermal gasket ID : 33mm

So in the mean time Elliot sent the manifold in Arizona, I sent my TT payment to Chriss Caroll. Basically, the job should have be done within 4 weeks . ( roughtly )

Too make it short, here is the pics of what I received in late of last October !!! ( 3 month after my order has been paid )








This is a pure disaster job ! Instead to get my requested 38mm , the ID is out of circle from 39 to 42 mm ( very easy to see on the pictures) . This manifold is deffinitively ruined and can not be used !!! ( seeing this, speaking about balanced flow is pure joke)

In addition , as a problem never come alone, the injectors block has been machined to the wrong dimensions. Input ID should have been to 38mm ....I measured 42mm !!! Output ID should have been to 33mm... I measured 32mm. And to win the last penny, the gasket ID was measure at 31.5mm instead of 33 mm .


For sure, as soon as I've received the parts in France, I informed Chris immediately. Few days later, I've got email in which he said he is sorry and will make new parts for me. He explained that he met many trouble with his supplier EXTRUDE HONE..... ok I can understand it. However, it doesn't explain why the machining itself is so out of professionnal standard .... it doesn't explain why his QC dept. could ship these parts with such problem and out of the required specification.

I was very patient until now but we are in late of January......and although the several promises from Chriss I have no any parts from him .( Just remember I paid everything early july) . 2 Weeks before, in order to solve this problem and since he complained again about Extrusion company, I even gave him my agreement to ship a new manifold without extrusion ( just simple machining only ) with correct injector blocks....... he should sent some pics. But no pics and no answer .

This is non professionnal at all ! I have waiting during 6 monthes and all what I got are a ruined manifold , useless injector blocks , too small gasket and 1870 USD out of my account.


Now , I am tired of his false promises and all what I want is my money back .

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Last edited by Thierry25; 02-01-2011 at 02:06 PM..
Old 01-27-2011, 07:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    #1 (permalink)
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What a nightmare! Hopefully, Chris will make it right...
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.

Last edited by mooney265; 01-27-2011 at 08:04 AM..
Old 01-27-2011, 08:00 AM
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I'm not real familiar with extrude hone but that doesn't appear to be done to this intake.
Old 01-27-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry25 View Post



.

....what's that brown thing smelling harder.....?...........never been professionally made......may be a child in India or north of Africa with a knife......

Now, your intake is....out...dead.......
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 935TURBO View Post
....what's that brown thing smelling harder.....?...........never been professionally made......may be a child in India or north of Africa with a knife......
Hi Serge

I appreciate brownies ..... but for tea time and with a cup of coffee only !!!!


I didn't use your words but it is close of my thinking !
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Last edited by Thierry25; 01-27-2011 at 12:23 PM..
Old 01-27-2011, 09:26 AM
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your plight is not funny but I do find amusement in the euro - to - english conversion
Old 01-27-2011, 09:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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your plight is not funny but I do find amusement in the euro - to - english conversion
Sorry, as you guessed, english is not my mother language...
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    #7 (permalink)
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You write it quite well.....point taken.
Old 01-27-2011, 10:29 AM
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I'm not the most experienced with the internals of our engines but I'm able to read your post and look at the pics and easily understand your situation. It's a bummer you had to resort to posting all of this to the forums but I would have done the same. Especially since you have given them plenty of time to work through the issues.

Best of luck to you.
Old 01-27-2011, 10:48 AM
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Anyway, a such piece, completely damaged is really a pity (not cruser...)...it's a shame, such a shame....to receive a piece like that....it's a shame.......how a company with a high reputation can do that.........the guy spent 1 700 $....it's a lot for such a ****....
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry25 View Post
Sorry, as you guessed, english is not my mother language...
Don't apologize, I was just making a light hearted comment
Old 01-27-2011, 11:17 AM
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This is the most upsetting part of this disaster. They advertise it as :

"Having your unit processed usually requires 1-2 week turnaround time and requires several steps and inspections performed here at TurboKraft ensuring certified results."

I was going to buy the same IM too but they had no stock ones available for EH. Now I really need to rethink.

Last edited by smurfbus; 01-27-2011 at 11:29 AM..
Old 01-27-2011, 11:27 AM
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Wow! How is it possible for a company, with as good a reputation as TurboKraft has, to send out something as amateurish as this? Really this is unbelievable
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
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Wow! How is it possible for a company, with as good a reputation as TurboKraft has, to send out something as amateurish as this? Really this is unbelievable
Unbelievable but it's the truth ....

You can even find the classified (WTB) I placed in last November for an other stock manifold .... at that time I just thought I could try to help Chris to locate a manifold .....
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Thanks to the Pelicans who emailed me about this posting. I appreciate the nice words some of you wrote, very defensive of us.

But in this case, Thierry is spot -on: we screwed up, and he's got every right to be upset.
We didn't -- I didn't -- verify his order was done right, and it got shipped out.
And I was supposed to email him a photo of the new manifold I'd had pilot bored at our machine shop, but didn't follow up on that. Again, my error.

We did 4 manifolds with E-H, and Thierry's was one of them. We've used one (it was good), shipped one (also good), and until a few minutes ago the last one was one a shelf here, waiting for when we got to that client engine job.

I just got the box down and inspected the part. Thierry's photos don't do it justice. The manifold is simply ruined. Ports that were once round are now egg-shaped or almost a polygon.

I can't use this part, and I wouldn't expect Thierry to use that one. It's crap.

We prepped this other manifold, but have a production delay with our CIS Injector Blocks and are looking at 3 more weeks. (Sorry to you all, too, who are waiting on these.) This is how Thierry's manifold looked *before* we sent it to Extrude-Hone for their "Level II processing."







I have been watching this post for the day, glad to see you chimed in.

Are you out sourcing your CNC work? If so, I can understand your delay. I build custom stunt bike parts and I am at the mercy of the machinist sometimes.
Old 01-27-2011, 01:11 PM
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Manifold debacle

Thanks to the Pelicans who emailed me about this posting. I appreciate the nice words some of you wrote, very defensive of us.

But in this case, Thierry is spot -on: we screwed up, and he's got every right to be upset.
We didn't -- I didn't -- verify his order was done right, and it got shipped out. Poor quality control, my error.
And I was supposed to email him a photo of the new manifold I'd had pilot bored at our machine shop, but didn't follow up on that. Again, my error.
My apologies to you, Thierry. You're a respected guy on this board, and I admire your innovation with your car (way cool electronic tuning of the CIS!) I have no desire or intention to do to screw you over.

We did 4 Porsche manifolds with E-H in a batch, and Thierry's was one of them. It took E-H forever, and the first time they returned the parts (late) they barely flowed them at all -- maybe 1mm opened, hardly smoothed out inside. They paid to overnight them back and re-do them, and that added weeks again.

We've used one of the manifolds (it was good), shipped one (also good), and until a few minutes ago the last one was one a shelf here, waiting for when we got to that client engine job.

I just got the box down and inspected the part. Thierry's photos don't do it justice. The manifold is simply ruined. Ports that were once round are now egg-shaped or almost a polygon.

I can't use this part, and I wouldn't expect Thierry to use that one. It's crap.

We prepped this other manifold, but have a production delay with our CIS Injector Blocks and are looking at 3 more weeks. (Sorry to you all, too, who are waiting on these.) This is how Thierry's manifold looked *before* we sent it to Extrude-Hone for their "Level II processing."











Thierry -- my apologies to you, again. I just saw your email in my Inbox and I'll send you that refund via PayPal to the address you gave. I included the postage you listed to send back those parts. I'm sending that manifold back to E-H for them to look at. We've gotten a tough lesson today in Quality Control, and maybe E-H will learn from this, too.

Regards,
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
I was going to buy the same IM too but they had no stock ones available for EH. Now I really need to rethink.
Smurfbus -- After this debacle with Thierry's manifold, and seeing the one we shelved until needed, I can see it's not an isolated event.
So we're going to suspend offering the Extruded manifolds until we can be confident no parts come back looking like that. We've had no issues with E-H like this in the past, but these parts aren't cheap and they only getting more scarce. We can't afford to have them ruined.

(Also, thanks to everyone who replied to our request for core manifolds, too. We were going to have these done in advance, to offer them on an exchange basis so there's no wait, but that's getting shelved until further notice.)

IMR-Merlin -- yes, we outsource most CNC machining. We luckily found a high-end mold making shop that enjoys doing these smaller batch production items (injector blocks, transmission mounts, etc.) Being a mold shop they are usually excessive anal-retentive about tolerances and measurements (they worry about 0.00025") so they were surprised about the 31.5mm measurement of the gasket. The supervisor there just assured me that won't happen again.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:29 PM
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just goes to show we are all human and make mistakes.

It's what you do after the mistake that makes you who you are.

A+ Chris
Old 01-27-2011, 01:58 PM
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I about fell off my chair and choked on my coffee this morning reading Thierry's post. This whole sorry, unfortunate chapter is so counter to what I've experienced with TurboKraft that to say I was "astounded" doesn't do it justice. Obviously, balls were dropped, and badly, and Thierry is right to be really and trully pissed. But the Chris Carroll I've come to know over the past months doesn't do business this way. If anything, Chris is almost obsessive/compulsive to a fault about stuff like this, no matter what the time or cost to his company. That's why I'm confident that as well as apologizing to Thierry, Chris will make things right. In the final analysis, Chris is a standup guy.
Old 01-27-2011, 02:46 PM
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I don't get it !?
"...stand up guy..." , "...great reputation..", "...Chris is almost obsessive/compulsive to a fault about stuff like this..." and etc !!!!

Thierry25 needed THREE MONTHS to get an answer , appology and public statment his money will be refunded !!!! I understand being busy for a week. OK, lets say two weeks and then solve the problem. But THREE MONTHS and involvement of Pelican Parts Forum !?
How TurboCraft is better than MotorMeister, Zufenhaus ( wiht their wheels ) ?

Really !?

Seems to me , only figuring out what this kind of publicity, on the web ,will do to his reputation, Chris addresed the issue .

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Old 01-27-2011, 04:18 PM
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