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Project 930 The Resurrection
As some of you know my 930 EFI project has been many years and innumerable dollars in the making only to inflict anguish and dissapointment. Many times I thought to just get rid of the car but it seems I can't bring myself to do so. I wanted to share with you the sort of prose that Tom inspired me with to give the car another chance in his brilliantly excuted thread on his EFI odyssey but alas all that is left is a seething anger. I am optimistic that Turbo Kraft will resurrect my 930 from the abyss and once again terrify even the Cerberus with her gnarly growl and terrific performance.
Chris please feel free to document the build here on this thread for all to share and comment on, from the misdeeds to the rebirth. Thanks |
Bravo Lincoln, could I bother you to recall some of the history of your car if it is not too painful so we have a sense of where you came from all in one thread so this masterpiece I am sure will come out of this will be that much more magnificent. I look forward to seeing this re-birth as I know you have some high quality parts in this motor already and please do a little pictoral of what the rest of the car is about. Thanks
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Outstanding, Lincoln. I'm confident you'll find that Chris and his guys are cut from different cloth. It'll be great fun to watch the progress of your car both here in Phoenix and on Pelican. I'd wish you luck, but with TurboKraft doing your rebuild you won't need it.
I've got to admit, it'll be strange for a while not writing a post every few days. The good news is that you're exactly the right guy to raise the bar a couple more notches. The adventure begins! |
Lincoln, good to hear that you're on the way.. I can only imagine how anxious you are to have that car back and producing the kind of reliable power that the sum of your parts should offer.
And of course we're all looking forward to another great build by Chris and his crew! Paul |
Make sure the top end is fresh before installation...replace anything that looks or is suspect, or else the pain of removing an engine...
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Seriously!
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Schnele, looking forward to follow your build in this thread. Tom's thread was just awesome.
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LOOKING FORWARD ALSO!!!!!!! :)
Walt Plus- I hope TK POSTS- The BEFORE PICS-OF WHAT THE F-WAS GOING ON WITH YOUR MACHINE. |
It's not a pain to drop an engine if you know what you are doing! What about an hour and a half max.
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I was being facetious, as someone commented privately, "perhaps Tilikum Turbo is a little lost."
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I know Lincoln I wasn't referring to you by any means your skills are proven. :D SmileWavy
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I know your car has caused you alot of a pain and anxiety bro (understatement)! But glad to hear that will all soon be a distant memory! Subscribing to the awesome build and living vicariously through you.
http://thequickanddirtydirty.com/wp-...0/04/carib.jpg <- on me |
That is just what I had in mind Yasin, Lent is almost over and I will no doubt stack a few up.
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Just got off the phone with Chris at TurboKraft let's just say it isn't pretty and it is going to be costly I am sure need another set of P&Cs +++ for Chris' benefit here is the purported build components from the last go around with SpeedWerks. Despite my having to go through yet another rebuild I will say Andy McNeil is a stand up guy and I will also state emphatically that David Brown is a lying crook.
Project Type 930/1987 model/ 37343 miles Engine 3.6 RSA crank and stock oil pump, etc. Case boat tailed and shuffle pinned Pauter rods Mahle 3.4L Cylinders custom JE pistons: 8:1compression Cylinders and heads ported with custom head work, 964 style head gaskets 930 heads ported with stock valve sizes, but smaller sodium filled 993 valves. Valves back cut for flow improvements along with some secret headwork Imagine Auto billet upper and lower valve covers Twin plug with 12 Bosch FR5DTC Super Plugs Performance Development valve springs and titanium retainers GT2 Evo custom grind cams Carrera 3.2 liter intake manifold Extruded and honed Wilson 70mm throttle body Custom billet fuel rails Edelbrock pressure regulator Siemens injectors 72lb/hr Full bay intercooler from Bell intercoolers (Don Enderlein’s design) B&B Headers (retained) Fabspeed Dual out exhaust Limit Engineering Garrett ceramic ball bearing turbo GT37CR Tial BOV, Wastegate MoTeC M600 with Data logging Denso 580 coil near plug coils Motec switch on the fly boost controller with hidden Valet Kennedy Engineered Products Pressure Plate/ Porsche Motorsport clutch Carbon Fiber engine shroud (not that you can see it because of the massive intercooler) Custom Gauges, tach swings from six o’clock with voltmeter and 220mph speedo Transmission Motorsport Synchros and sleeve assembly WEVO G50 shifter. Suspension I have upgraded to an RSR coilover setup and Wevo Camber king setup with the strut brace tube. Braking and Running Gear The car presently has Big Reds all around and 17” Ruf Speedline classics (8x 10 x17 with Michelin Pilot Sport Cups). Safety Full Matter Roll cage and fire suppression is onboard. Bi-xenon H4s, Recaro Sport Toplines in suede and leather, Schroth harnesses full RS interior. Miscellaneous I have to have a soundtrack so, McIntosh head unit and amplifier sound system with ADS speakers and JL sub, Griffiths and Performance Aire AC, Custom gauges and an Alcantera Ruf steering wheel, aero mirrors, Ruf pedals and gauges waiting to be installed. |
Here are the various threads that were loaded with exuberance and optimism for a solid and potent car that to date has resulted in disappointment and despair.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/573269-successful-efi-conversions.html http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/264144-anybody-know-john-truman.html http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/447097-road-trip-bringing-home-project-930-a.html http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/367717-how-much-power-do-you-have-how-did-you-get-there.html http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/552885-new-speedwerks.html |
may the force be with you Linc
I see Shadetree edited your last post...some censorship happening? |
930 Engine Autopsy
Until Tom's http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/537664-2010-efi-hot-rod-odyssey.html I have tended to not participate in the online forums much. So I was unaware of the heartwrenching saga of the car's past 6 years.
When I first spoke to Lincoln about his 930, I was struck by all the modifications he had done. His build sheet sounded like a recipe with all the right ingredients for a streetable super-930. Then we got to talking about the power, or lack thereof. It didn't add up. We agreed to take in the car in the Spring when we were done with Tom's Uber930, to see if we can't figure out what's been going wrong and why the engine just can't hold together. So without further ado... here we go. Car arrives, running very rough, dripping, smoking. Pull the lower spark plugs, and three look wet. Leakdown test results confirm this is effectively a 3-cylinder. #1 spark plug wire is barely threaded to the plug connector. Same for #6. A solid 30+ minutes to get the intercooler off. Several different types of fasteners, some obscured; hose clamps, Wiggins clamps, off-angle junctions; lengthy inlet & outlet pipes welded on. Probably an effective unit, but not executed with serviceabilty in mind. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303370568.jpg There's metal shavings in the Tial blow off valve. Not a good start. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303370438.jpg The first real "WTF???" moment: who molested the Wilson throttle body, and who plumbed it? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303371117.jpg - the upper port is boost reference, and is threaded and sealed with pipe dope -- plumbed to the FPR + BOV (bad combination -- the BOV is a vacuum consumer, the FPR is not) - the lower port is secured with epoxy -- plumbed for the MAP only (good, except the port location makes it very sensitive to airflow over the throttle valve, so it's doubtful it got a good, repeatable MAP signal) - the side port is pressed in and sealed with clear silicone -- boost source for lower port of Tial wastegate, and a hose going to the cockpit (Motec boost controller wired up by bypassed, old Ruf knob behind seats atop center tunnel access cover) Plus, the new throttle linkage severely contacts the intake manifold on the 1-3 side. Best case scenario: dangerous. Worst case: lethal. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303374010.jpg Raise it up and drain the oil. Crankcase drain plug on the left, oil tank plug on the right. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303372053.jpg Those are pieces of piston ring in the crankcase, plus a lot of metal filings. The sludge is mostly assembly lube, but some metal filings. And the broken Matco 8mm allen socket? Snapped removing the over-torqued axle (CV) bolts. Just guessing by the amount of torque it took to unbolt the sway bar drop links from the sway bar (I could hang on the wrench), they were probably installed with an impact gun, too. A closer look beneath the engine and it only gets stranger and uglier. "Gaskets: if 1 is good, 2 are better" http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303372866.jpg Why is a 964/993 cylinder head temperature sensor threaded into an adapter threaded into the old air injection port of the cylinder head? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303373004.jpg Drop the engine out, and there's the shortened G50/50 from PMS. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303373618.jpg Note the modified engine tins over the bell housing, extended on the top surface. That's because the Turbo gearbox is longer than the non-Turbo version, thanks to a larger diameter ring gear. So even though it's shortened, it pushes the whole engine aft by nearly 1 inch if you don't cut & modify the center tunnel. They didn't, and that meant modifying the rear engine mounts of the chassis, latch panel, and engine carrier crossbar. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303373821.jpg |
More 930 Autopsy Photos
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303374740.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303375005.jpg Hard to see from this photo, but the transmission bolt was so over-tightened that it has been stretched thin -- deformed -- near the shoulder. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303374521.jpg Take it apart in assemblies: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303374250.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303374283.jpg Camshaft (Synch) sensor, re-wired at some point, pretty sloppy. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303375173.jpg Oil pressure sensor, leaking adapter for oil pressure switch. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303374483.jpg Really weird: loosened this fitting, and it sprayed oil out. For some reason it's holding oil pressure in this circuit... This is also plumbed for extra engine sensors: Air Temp -- intercooler inlet Air Temp -- intercooler outlet Oil Pressure Fuel Pressure Strangely, this car has stock chassis fuel lines -- smaller than -6AN -- but after the fuel filter it jumps all the way up to -10AN in & out of the rails. Then it chokes all the way down to -4AN for the return line out of the FPR. Doesn't make a lot of sense. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303375518.jpg The cylinder heads' intake port work actually looks really nice. Except for the speckles of metal stuck to the port wall. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303375681.jpg Really nasty oil in the turbocharger scavenge system. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303375805.jpg |
930 Engine Autopsy - Caution: Carnage
Case thermostat bonded in with Loctite 574. Required 2 sizeable prybars to remove!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303375906.jpg Metal shrapnel in wastegate lower housing, embedded into valve & seat. Also bonded in exhaust pipe leading to wastegate. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376019.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376122.jpg Stacked cylinder base gaskets. This leaked a lot. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376445.jpg Crank angle sensor has made contact with the wheel in the past. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376568.jpg That's a lot of timing marks, machined in and scribed on. Only 3 are needed.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376654.jpg Verified camshaft timing during disassembly: 1-3 cam @ 1.99mm / 4-6 cam @ 2.21mm And the worst of it: 3 - 2 - 1 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376921.jpg #3 cylinder http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377017.jpg #3 head http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377098.jpg |
#1 piston
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303376971.jpg #1 head http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377419.jpg A prior technician clearly knew there was an oil consumption problem on #6 -- he installed an "anti-fouler". Worse than shade-tree. This is just hack. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377507.jpg 6 - 5 - 4 side http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377584.jpg #6 has broken ring bits in the cylinder, on top of the piston http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377658.jpg #4 piston http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377742.jpg #4 head http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377775.jpg Multi-piece rings. Top ring broken about every 4mm. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377832.jpg Melted piston dripped onto the rod http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303377856.jpg |
Wow...I do not even own this car and those pictures made me *VERY* angry, the carnage, the damage, the poor workmanship goes on and on. I have an idea how much Lincoln spent with past shops, and from the autopsy or diagnosis I would be seeking some form of retribution...atrocious.
However ever comforting to know that TurboKraft will werk their magic! Yasin |
I am speechless.
I am eager to hear the explanations about how this carnage happened. Thanks for sharing that with us. Mathieu |
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Then I remembered that I live in damper climes than you guys and that if I went through a watersplash (fording a stream), the engine would be given to unintentional 'water injection'.. Surely stones could fly up and hit the filter, too? |
Jeeze, Lincoln - I just looked at the other pictures.
Wish you all the best - you're in safe hands. |
Oh Linc! My heart goes out to you brutha!
I knew you'd had issues and seemed to be continuing to have issues but had noooo idea how bad 'BAD' was. Heck I didn't even frickin KNOW folks could build something *that bad* at these levels of play... I'm speechless, and cannot begin to fathom how gutted you must be. The carnage is just endless and goes on and on and on... OUCH. Not that anyone deserves 'that', but worst part is Linc's the damn nicest dude you'll ever meet. Really really really sucks that there's folks in the world that would do that, and esp to someone as cool as you my friend. I guess solstice is found in that you've hit rock bottom and the only way is up - and UP in GOOD HANDS. With Tom's project birthed to near infinite awesomeness just ahead of you, you've got solid inspiration for your soon to be found _destiny_. To end on a positive note, let's look @ happier times (amazing times) with you and your car before all this reared its FUGLY HEAD: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_D...6/DSC00730.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_D...6/DSC00734.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_D...6/DSC00733.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_D...6/DSC00809.JPG Linc... note I spared you from what you knooooow is my *fave* pic of you... fear not tho, I'll deploy that somewhere throughout this tread @ a fitting time 8-) (!!!). YouTube - pkrasusky's Channel (crappy vid, you were too fast for mere mortals to capture on camera apparently) When you're done Linc, you're going to have quite the fantabulous creation - I always enjoyed the direction you went w/ it overall... factory looking but better. Also really dig that about Tom's uber930, haven't chimed in on that yet but well played sir, and to all involved for that matter. Take good care of Linc, Chris... tho that's sorta a foregone conclusion... |
WHOA.............................................. ................. :(
Serious Trauma Center...................... :( But you got the best DOC IN TOWN.. :) |
Holy $hit!:eek: Shaking my head in disbelief and disgust right now.
Chris, can you explain what we are seeing for damage on the piston crowns and the cylinder heads. I have these thoughts that immediately come to mind: 1) the deck height was not set correctly. 2) detonation blew away chunks of piston crown that remained in the combustion chamber and "bounced around" causing the carnage. 3) all of the above Shameful that so called professionals can take your money and let something like that out of their shop. |
Oh smokes! Talk about half a$$ed, hack jobs! What a total rip off especially the fuel lines among others. It's too bad that this will require total engine rebuild. But it's in GOOD hands! Can't wait to follow your progress.
Linc, as others said...I feel for ya...being shorted and taken advantage of which should happen no more (excuse my poor grammar!). |
Excuse me...WTF is an "anti-fouler"?
And this is installed in lieu of a second sparkplug on #6 cylinder? It also appears to simply vent to atmosphere?!? ARE YOU F_ING KIDDING ME! This thread really pisses me off. Quote:
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Ok. Now I am quoting myself...
Looking at this further, I suppose the spark plug threads into this gizmo and its supposed to "insulate" the electrode from oil and crap in the combustion chamber by moving it away from the action...but in the process reducing the spark plugs effectiveness in lighting off the mixture. Quote:
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http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...7/DSC02852.jpg Linc, thank you for being forthcoming with your current engine. Many others would bury their heads in the sand and try to prevent this type of thing from becoming public. I think we have as much to learn from the bad jobs as the good ones. Just keep in mind that none of this stuff is directly your fault and when it gets done you will have the 930 you deserve. |
Holy Detonation Batman! There is serious combustion issues based on the carbon patterns on the heads and piston crowns. It looks like the lower plug on #3 was not firing.
What was the installed deck height on these pistons? Why is the step down on the 98mm pistons so pronounced? that is a serious step down to the flat at the perimeter. Without a chamfer on the head to match the extra 1.5mm on each side I can see why there was so much detonation issues at the perimeter. I think you are in good hands. I can not wait to see the results of putting new life into the engine. |
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http://asbury.smugmug.com/By-Land/My...0_BhDuL-XL.jpg http://asbury.smugmug.com/By-Land/My...6_GeyYD-XL.jpg |
Wow, that is just a tragedy. Though it is no condolence I have heard many stories like this that never hit the web. Some of the biggest names out there have done some really shoddy work using unskilled labor. The money spent/wasted is staggering.
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This is exactly why I try to do everything myself. I have been building engines since I was 15 off and on i'll be 50 next year. No offense to any of the professionals on the board here a lot of shops do very good work then get big and hire unskilled people due to the small talent pool. When i have a problem with my car or something wasn't done correctly then i have only myself to blame and try to learn from the experience. A lot of guys arent lucky enough to have the tools or room to this work. It just kills me to see someone paid to have this done to them. Sorry just had to vent after seeing this.
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WOW! Linc..
I knew it was bad, and that you were both pissed and disappointed, but I never expected it to be like this.. with as few-a-miles as you had on the build. Curses!! Amazed at some of the carelessness and deceit involved. Like the anti-fouler WTF.. on a Porsche? :confused: |
[QUOTE=willtel;5976430]Unreal. At least now we all know how we can make our plugs last longer.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...7/DSC02852.jpg You figured out what those are for and they were a popular bandaid solution in upright 170, 200, and 250 cubic inch inline 6 cylinder Ford motors from the sixties and seventies because the umbrella valve seals used in those engines would crack and fall apart after 20-30,000 miles causing oil burning and so much burnt oil deposits on the plugs they would stop firing. Those things would sort of help delay the plugs from oil fouling as fast and also inadvertantly lowered compression a little. Years ago when oxygen sensor bungs were hard to find I've taken one of those made for 14mm sparkplugs and cut the male threads off and welded it onto the exhaust pipe after the header collector and screwed an oxygen sensor into it. They make a good O2 sensor bung that way and end up cheaper than todays premade O2 sensor bungs. |
None of the shops that worked on my car used the so called cheap labor, they all boasted techs with decades of experience and in the case of John Truman he was working on Porsches before I was born. The thing is no one is ever really willing to be open about a bad experience and in an internet world people endorse shops with whom they have had only cursory encounters. I asked Chris to post everything here to make this process transparent for the benefit of us all, I should add that no shop has cut me back a check ever for all the screw ups on my car.
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I have gotten a couple of phone calls and I appreciate the kind words and sympathy that has been poured out it really means a lot.
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