Innovate LC-1 or MTX-L or other

[Aggie93]

I've started thinking about winter projects and monitoring AFRs seems to be a must with a high HP motor. The build sheet from Stephen has an Innovate on there, but its not there. Based on the consensus here I was going to install the Innovate LC-1 along with DL-32 and plug in RPM and boost.

After viewing Innovate’s site I saw the MTX-L and thought this might be a better solution. While I’d rather have an analog gauge, I’d rather have better technology. Plus, having the brains in the cockpit seems more logical. My understanding is while the MTX can log the data (need computer in the car), I would still need the DL-32 to capture RPM and boost. I'm also a little confused on if the SSI is needed as well.

Also, the Daytona WEGO IV that dicklague brings up looks like an easy solution. Does anyone else have comments about this unit?

After rambling a bit, I’m curious what the latest opinion for monitoring and logging AFR and other data. Also, is there anything else I should be thinking about to ensure everything is running properly?

[JFairman]

I've had two different LC-1 wideband AFR gauge controllers and G3 analog gauges and now have the new MTX-L digital gauge with built in controller.

No contest between them... the MTX-L is light years better, more consistant, and is really easy to wire up with only 3 wires while the LC-1 with it's lousy instructions and mess of wires that do not match the wire colors of the gauges they sell is not easy to wire up.

Innovate also makes a sheilded extension cable that plugs into the MTX-L pigtail at one end and the oxygen sensor cable plug at the other end so it can be mounted in the front of a rear engine car with proper wire impedences and fully sheilded wires in the cable.
That is impossible with the LC-1 because the molded in cable is not long enough and there is no extension cable made for it and no plug on the end of the LC-1 cable built into it so you have to make your own extension cable that will not have the important grounded metal foil sheilding built into ithe cable and then hope it works consistantly.

Also the LC-1 controller molded plastic body does not come apart and is non serviceable if it goes bad.

The MTX-L has a 0-5 volt analog output plug so you can hook up any analog or digital AFR gauge made because they are all just 0-5 volt DC voltmeters and then you can put the MTX-L gauge and built in controller somewhere else out of view if desired.

[gumba]

I prefer analog. I've been running twin LC-1's with a Westach dual a/f gauge in our race car for years with no problems, other than the sensors don't like race gas. Extended the wiring to run up through the tunnel. Recently installed an LC-1 in the turbo and ran the wires next to the boost gauge hosing under the car.
You can run any gauge with the LC-1 and can set up a high/low a/f warning light. You only need one wire to run from the lc-1 to the gauge, a 2nd wire is optional.
You can data log with the lc-1 using a cheap laptop, and can piggyback the lc-1's if your running more than one. If your running SSI's you would install the bung there. I have the bungs installed in each header for the race car, in the muffler for the turbo, and in one SSI on the 3.2.
The technology would be the same. The analog gauge uses a stepper motor. You can also adjust how many times per/second it takes a reading. If your getting too much fluctuation.

[xbmwguy]

+1 on what fairman said. another important plus to the mtx is with its longer chord you keep the "brains" of the unit out of the hostile enviroment of our engine bay. i too didnt like all the lights and bling with the mtx so after i finished with my efi tuning i wired my old g-5 guage to the extra output and now i am back to period correctness and it is much more stable than with the lc-1

[Aggie93]

putting in the order for the MTX. From looking at Innovate's site, do I just need the DL-32 in order to log RPM and boost along with the AFRs?

I''m trying to figure out what the differences are between the SSI, AuxBox, and DL-32 (besides writing info to a card).

[PrimeMvr]

I have the MTX-L hooked up to an SSI-4. I took a feed from the purple wire on the back of the tach (IIRC) as well as a feed from the 3-bar MAP sensor on my MSD setup. It took a bit of tweaking to get the RPM and MAP readings right, but it was straightforward.

I have a serial cable under my passenger floormat that is connected to the SSI-4 for easy datalogging to a laptop.

I've had it installed for about a year and have had no issues.

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by gumba

snip...with no problems, other than the sensors don't like race gas.

Even unleaded race gas? Hmmn. Perhaps this explains why my LC-1 started acting up again. My first sensor lasted a few years before it crapped out. I put in a new one at the beginning of this driving season and its already taken a dump on me. I was at the track and put in some of their high test back in early october, next time I drove it the guage was going wacky.

[bleucamaro]

I have an LC-1 with the digital gauge, and an LM-2. The LC-1 worked great for about a year, then began giving wildly eratic readings. Tried a new sensor, tried resoldering, tried installing in a different car, The LC-1 went bad. It works fine for about 20 minutes then goes nuts. Innovate tech support was no help.

As for the LM-2, I love it. I’ve used it for tuning a few cars and it works great as a tuning tool, but is not meant to be permanently installed.

For the LC-1 replacement, I have a 034 Motorsports wideband that is waiting to be installed this winter.

[sjf911]

Interesting, I've had my LC-1 for almost 5 years now without issues other than sensors going bad from excess heat.

[fredmeister]

Originally Posted by sjf911

Interesting, I've had my LC-1 for almost 5 years now without issues other than sensors going bad from excess heat.

What are the symptoms whe you get a sensor going bad? I mean what do you see on the XD16 gage or other gage from innovate?
Would you get lower readings than reality or some sort of error message?
I gotta say the Innovate instructions suck and the help line has some young punk answering the phones with an attitude half the time. Once its hooked up it seems to run ok.
I have had mine a year now, I calibrate mine every few months and figure as long as I see 20.6-20.9 AFR in free air when its warmed up before starting the car the sensor is still good.
My biggest fear is that the gage appears normal but just shows lower AFR readings than the engine is seeing. This would mean running lean without knowing it.

thanks,
Fred

[IMR-Merlin]

I'm going to give my $.02 on the LC-1. I had one in my Dinan M3 and when it worked, it worked great, but I went through 2 O2 sensors and one control unit.

I like the display, but not the overall product.

[Aggie93]

I talked to my mechanic yesterday and he recommended not to install an AFR gauge. He said just to tune it on dyno and leave it alone. That seems to be against the wisdom here.

Is it common for AFRs to change over time?

[IMR-Merlin]

If I had the option to have one, I would. Parts fail on cars all the time and adjustments change too. If you only had it to monitor your AFR in case you had something fail, it is cheap insurance, especially considering the cost of a rebuild...

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by fredmeister

What are the symptoms whe you get a sensor going bad? I mean what do you see on the XD16 gage or other gage from innovate?
Would you get lower readings than reality or some sort of error message?
I gotta say the Innovate instructions suck and the help line has some young punk answering the phones with an attitude half the time. Once its hooked up it seems to run ok.
I have had mine a year now, I calibrate mine every few months and figure as long as I see 20.6-20.9 AFR in free air when its warmed up before starting the car the sensor is still good.
My biggest fear is that the gage appears normal but just shows lower AFR readings than the engine is seeing. This would mean running lean without knowing it.

thanks,
Fred

The numbers would just go crazy or even freeze. Intermittently it would appear to read correctly and then it just stopped. I didn't have any issues with it while I was still running N/A but I lost 2 sensors using the bung immediately after the turbo, the second even using a copper heat-sink. I had a bung welded on the exhaust pipe just after the muffler and have had no problems since (I'm running one of Brian's mufflers).

[WinRice]

I like the Zeitronix stuff better than the older Innovate. You can even use it to trigger an enrichment solenoid by RPM if you want. The LCD fits perfect in place of the ashtray.

Zeitronix : Wideband Engine Datalogging Systems and Accessories

I haven't had a chance to play with the Innovate MTX-L yet.

[EmptyGarage]

Has anyone had experience with the PLX wideband and gauge?

PLX Devices Inc - USA

it looks like a nice unit but I have not read many comments on it's quality.

[proffighter]

I use Zeitronix ZT-2 as well. User friendly and many options available