little depressed today...engine rebuild question

[jimtweet]

so, i had a brand new rear fuel pump i picked up for peanuts, and decided to replace mine for absolutely no reason other then i had a brand new pump sitting there and replaced my front pump the week before...

so after jacking the car up, i finally realized how bad the engine is leaking...

ill start by saying it is a 1980 930 3.3. i picked this up from the second owner not really knowing exact mileage. He had the original odometer with 69kil on it, but had a MPH speedometer installed by a shop (have paper work), with 19k on it, i now have 29xxx on the car, so i am thinking about 70-80k miles?

the car sat for 9 years in a garage, so i am assuming most of the seals dried up at this time

car starts everytime, right up, doesnt smoke a bit, and runs great, and pulls like a freight train! i usually get a dime size drop on the floor everytime i park the car...

after jacking car up to replace rear pump i realized the whole bottom half of the engine is covered in oil. its so hard to track down a single leak, it seems to be everywhere...

I have made the decision to pull the engine and trans over the winter for a full transmission rebuild, but had no intentions of doing any engine work since funds are already tight as can be.

i have built a few V8 ford engines and a couple subaru engines in my past, but never a porsche engine

the million dollar question is...

would it be stupid for me to just re-ring the pistons and top end seal this engine?

seems dumb, but i always thought if you had a engine down to the pistons, why not split the case, but i know i do not have the funds for a full rebuild (being a single 30 year old house owner).

i feel pretty confident that i could re-ring and reseal the top end myself

sorry for long post...your thoughts.

[jimtweet]

or, do i just forget what i saw and continue to drive the car and enjoy it...

i have had a few show cars in my past and vowed to never own another. i have a 04 STi with 9k miles on it, yes that is correct, 9k

it never leaves the garage, never gets driven, worried about rock chips, and rain, and stupid ****,

when i got this car i vowed to drive the **** out of it and not worry about a thing, hence the rustoleum paint...

pics of sti for ****s and giggles

[Tippy]

With that low of miles, you may weigh splitting the low end anyways but reuse the same main bearings. You wouldn't have to replace the rod bearings as you simply leave the rods on.

I would definitely replace the IMS bearings as they are cheap and wear the most.

For reference, my bearings were perfect along with all the journals after a rebuild 7-8 years prior running 500+ hp.

Most of the cost is in the top end, might as well go all the way.

I would ask Steve Weiner his opinion in the rebuild forum.

[Dave 86 930 Fl]

Jim,

I pulled my motor a few years ago due to a broken head stud and some minor leaks. I broke the motor down to the block, but did not split the case. I replaced the head studs and all of the gaskets and bolted everything back together. Knock on wood, everything has been running great and I use my car 99% of the time at the track. IMO, these are great motors in stock form and I keep the revs down to 6000 most of the time.

I would suggest that you pull it out and fix what needs fixing, nothing more ... just my opinion. Good luck. BTW, you have the flat black 930? pictures would be nice

Regards, Dave

[jimtweet]

Originally Posted by Dave 86 930 Fl

Jim,

BTW, you have the flat black 930? pictures would be nice

Regards, Dave

update on the ride,....lots of pics!

[Roby466]

Your car is beautiful!
By the way, you are not the only guy with a 911 or 930 that has an oil covered engine...
I can't advise on the repairs, I never went through that myself.

[mark houghton]

Jim, if all you're really concerned about are those pesky leaks and have no other symptoms to indicate a rebuild of any level is in order, then save the funds for a later time when you can go all-out on the rebuild. I would pull the motor out as a worthy experience, at which point you'll have a much better view of where the leaks may be coming from. From there, purchase the various seals and gaskets and o-rings as needed. And while she's out, certainly take the opportunity to adjust the valves. And since you intend to pull the tranny and have it rebuilt (ka'ching!) then you should inspect and/or service the clutch, flywheel, and TOB and replace the crank seal as cheap insurance "while you're in there".

But first - and this can be kinda messy - jack the car up to where you can crawl underneath the engine with a can or two of engine degreaser and hose the piss outa the engine bottom to top, then rinse off. The trick is to get as much of the oil goo off of everything. Let her dry, then go for a spin...park her...and look closely for where the "new" leaks are coming from. That'll point you in the general direction where to look when the motor is out.

Just my thoughts..let your pocket book tell you how far to go. Mine has been drip free for the last 4 years, until just this summer I'm getting a couple drops on the driveway. The location tells me most likely valve cover gasket on the left side, but still...not too happy about it.

[911nut]

Originally Posted by Tippy

With that low of miles, you may weigh splitting the low end anyways but reuse the same main bearings. You wouldn't have to replace the rod bearings as you simply leave the rods on.

I'd do rod bearings. Rod bearings run at 2x the rpm of the crank and take a beating on every stroke. Rod bearings are usually the first bearings to fail.

[jimtweet]

Originally Posted by Roby466

Your car is beautiful!
By the way, you are not the only guy with a 911 or 930 that has an oil covered engine...
I can't advise on the repairs, I never went through that myself.

im sure i am not, i just wasnt expecting to see what i saw, i think it was more of a shock then anything. it just amazed me that the car can seem to leak that much but still run as good as it does...

i dont drive the car hard at all and no track, but just concerned me

i will start researching my options and keep everyone posted,...

the car was bone dry when i bought it, but again, never got driven...i have put about 6k miles on it in a year so far...i drive it every chance i get.

[jimtweet]

Originally Posted by mark houghton

Jim, if all you're really concerned about are those pesky leaks and have no other symptoms to indicate a rebuild of any level is in order, then save the funds for a later time when you can go all-out on the rebuild. I would pull the motor out as a worthy experience, at which point you'll have a much better view of where the leaks may be coming from. From there, purchase the various seals and gaskets and o-rings as needed. And while she's out, certainly take the opportunity to adjust the valves. And since you intend to pull the tranny and have it rebuilt (ka'ching!) then you should inspect and/or service the clutch, flywheel, and TOB and replace the crank seal as cheap
insurance "while you're in there". .

that is what i had in mind and planned for low funds, i planned to replace clutch, TOB, and have flywheel done

i didnt even think about crank seal, now that you say that, i am guessing this can be done without splitting the case? special tool?

Originally Posted by mark houghton

But first - and this can be kinda messy - jack the car up to where you can crawl underneath the engine with a can or two of engine degreaser and hose the piss outa the engine bottom to top, then rinse off. The trick is to get as much of the oil goo off of everything. Let her dry, then go for a spin...park her...and look closely for where the "new" leaks are coming from. That'll point you in the general direction where to look when the motor is out.

Just my thoughts..let your pocket book tell you how far to go.

looking at the engine underneather is SUPER clean, no build up really, i have sprayed it down with brake clean twice before, once when i got it and about a month ago,...no black oily build up, and clean oil all over stuff,...the oil is super clean...i replaced sump gaskets and valve gaskets and that seemed to stop most of the oil...there was nothing left of those gasket when i removed them.

return tubes are dry as bone, nothing coming from rear main, atleast looks that way,...seems to be between cyl and case, rear oil return pump area, front cam area, or cam cover gaskets? not really sure, there is to much

[oilonly]

I say wait a year and continue to enjoy the car if it is running fine. JMHO

[willtel]

Have you had a good look at the crankcase vent under the intake? My hose had separated and it made a mess under there.

Either way I wouldn't make any rash decisions until you at least get the engine out and see exactly what is needed. It seems no one gets through a rebuild on the cheap.

[jimtweet]

Originally Posted by willtel

Have you had a good look at the crankcase vent under the intake. My how had separated and it made a mess under there.

Either way I wouldn't make any rash decisions until you at least get the engine out and see exactly what is needed. It seems no one gets through a rebuild on the cheap.

that is my fear, i am trying to build three cars at once and that is where i went wrong! 1980 930, 1973 914, 1966 mustang gt k code

i just asked my co pilot and he seems a bit confused on what to do

[jimtweet]

Originally Posted by willtel

Have you had a good look at the crankcase vent under the intake? My hose had separated and it made a mess under there.

Either way I wouldn't make any rash decisions until you at least get the engine out and see exactly what is needed. It seems no one gets through a rebuild on the cheap.

i have the stock intake box removed, and the top half of the engine looks amazingly clean
do you have a exact pic of where you are saying? tri angle of death? if so, mine appears clean

[slyguy]

I have a leak at my oil pressure sender/turbo oiling connection in the back, between the banjo, the crush washers, the threaded fitting and being under pressure it leaks oil down the engine and it ends up running down and blowing all over the place. Stick your head in there and have a look in the back. yes, the way back...

[willtel]

Originally Posted by jimtweet

i have the stock intake box removed, and the top half of the engine looks amazingly clean
do you have a exact pic of where you are saying? tri angle of death? if so, mine appears clean

I'm not familiar with the triangle of death, and I'm not sure I want to be.

In this pic the crankcase vent is at the front center of the engine and has a blue towel stuffed in it.

IMG_9946 by willtel, on Flickr

The vent hose is seen on the floor here, it is supposed to be one piece.

Seperated PCV Hose by willtel, on Flickr

If the main seal is leaking it will be immediately apparent when you separate the engine and trans.

[Roby466]

I am currently chasing a leak as well and I was reading (somewhere here) that the oil cooler gasket can make a mess when it leaks... If you drove the car 6000 miles in the past year, it does not really take long for a leak in the front of the engine to send oil everywhere...
Good luck!

[jimtweet]

Originally Posted by willtel

I'm not familiar with the triangle of death, and I'm not sure I want to be.

In this pic the crankcase vent is at the front center of the engine and has a blue towel stuffed in it.

IMG_9946 by willtel, on Flickr

The vent hose is seen on the floor here, it is supposed to be one piece.

Seperated PCV Hose by willtel, on Flickr

If the main seal is leaking it will be immediately apparent when you separate the engine and trans.

yea you posted a pic of the triangle of death,...that whole area seems to be really clean on my engine, atleast what i can see from the top side with a light,..might be a different story when engine is out

the area of where the engine and trans meet is dry as bone, that is what makes me think rear seal is ok, but i would plan to replace that while engine is apart anyway,

[mark houghton]

Jim, the main seal is easy since you plan to take off the flywheel anyway. Don't have to split the cases or anything.
That crankcase vent is a common leaker (o'rings). Mine was leaking last I pulled the engine...not leaking really bad, but leaking.
Get the motor out, take stock of things, go from there. Really hard to trace oil leaks on these cars with all that cooling air blowing around.
And oh...your co-pilot is not confused, he has his priorities straight. Play and love....that's it. Just be sure to touch him often during the process, or he may get disenchanted and pee on the tires to get your attention.

[slow&rusty]

I say enjoy the car, mine also leaks and I just keep cleaning it, knowing one day in the upcoming future I will rebuild it and go all out.

Maybe try a little heavier weight oil (20W50 for example).

By the way your STi is wicked, that is my favorite of all the STi / Impreza body styles (next to the original 2.5RS).
Yasin