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Misc. Questions

My Dizzy vacuum advance has two connections, one for advance and one for retard.
In the picture, it looks like the retard vac line is connected properly. Nothing is on the advance connection. A hose should be coming from the 60 degree temperature switch. It appears to be nowhere. Is this correct for a 1986 USA car (NOT Cali)?

Any clue how this is normally routed from the switch to the Dizzy?



I found the connector below unplugged. It appears to have 3 connections in the plug. What is it for? It is the connector partially under the wire retaining tabs.


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1986 930, Garnet Red Metallic
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63 904 (086), 63 904 (038)
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:48 AM
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I believe the bottom plug is for the O2 sensor
Old 07-29-2013, 03:01 PM
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Firstdotlast:

Just found a diagram in the Turbo Workshop book that confirms that! Thanks!
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:12 PM
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If you have the original tail on your car, there is a good, vacuum routing diagram stuck to the underside of it near the condenser (close to the where the edge meets the rubber strip).
Old 07-29-2013, 03:14 PM
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There's also a vacuum hose diagram in the origonal owners manual along with timing specs.
As it is now you have no vacuum advance or boost retard and it looks like the distributor has been turned clockwise so static timing may be advanced more than stock.
You still have centrifical advance and the vacuum retard hose is in place if it's on the right fitting on the bottom side of the throttle body.

Sure is clean.
Old 07-29-2013, 03:46 PM
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Its not that I don't know where the hose should come from, I see the diagrams mentioned. Its that the physical routing of the hose is unknown. I cannot see the hose end anywhere. If I could see the temperature switch at all, I could then trace the hose and find its end.

It looks to me as if I need to remove the air cleaner to get access to the temperature switch and its hoses. I looked up from under the car, but see no way to check out the switch from there. I tried a mirror and flashlight from the top, but still could not see the switch.

I can see where the hose that goes TO the switch starts at the throttle body, but that does me no good. It does appear to be routed to the rear where the switch is mounted.

I have to assume that removing the air cleaner will not be a picnic but WILL be a PITA.

More to come.
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1986 930, Garnet Red Metallic
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:43 AM
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Removing the air cleaner is not at all difficult. The hardest part is getting a small wrench in the limited space to unscrew the two bolts that mount the aircleaner to the fuel distributor. Piece of cake, otherwise.

The temperature switch (probably more accurately named a valve, since there's nothing electrical about it) is located way back in the area of the oil thermostat on top of the engine block which is kinda behind the fuel distributor. It will be a pain to get to unless you're a contortionist. When I had my engine out for a reseal and clutch years ago, I remember scoping out that unit and testing it's action. For me it opened at around 150 degrees F (hot water bath) and is simply a bi-metalic heat actuated valve.

I've probably got this backwards and if so I trust my fellow Pelicanites to correct me, but if I recall it's function is to keep the timing retarded until such time that the engine warms up somewhat....in order to increase exhaust temps due to the retard and heat up the catalytic converter quicker for emissions reasons. I left mine connected since it was working fine, but in hindsight I probably would have taken it out of the equation entirely since I don't have to worry about emissions testing here.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:06 PM
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Thanks, Mark for the information.

Off to remove the air cleaner housing!

Funny, all this started because I was (still am) chasing an oil leak on the left side of the engine. In the process I found all these other things!

Nature of the beast, I guess on a 27 year old car.
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70 914-6
Old 07-30-2013, 01:00 PM
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Mark is right. That thermovalve simply blocks throttle body venturi vacuum from the distributor vacuum advance pot until the engine case warms up and opens the valve.

Blocking the vacuum advance for that period of time keeps the igntion timing from advancing beyond centrifical advance. That keeps exhaust temperatures higher during warm up and that makes the catalytic converter heat up faster so exhaust emissions are lower as the motor is warming up.

Retarding ignition timing raises exhaust temps because igntion happens later and the last of the gas/air mixture is still burning when the the exhaust stroke starts and the exhaust valve opens.
The opposite happens when advancing the timing and exhaust temps are lower as timing is advanced because combustion is finished when the exhaust valve opens.
Old 07-30-2013, 03:21 PM
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Just to mention take your air filter out of the air cleaner housing to make it easier to remove the housing, that 1/2" helps alot. JMHO
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:57 PM
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Air cleaner is off, and lo and behold: the hose from the thermo valve to the Dizzy is MISSING completely.

So let's see: the search for an oil leak (on hold for the moment) has led to the discovery of a missing vacuum advance hose, and possibly a disconnected Oxy Sensor.

Wonder if the car will run any better with these items fixed? Car seemed to run fine, passed Smog handily, but idled a little high, even after I turned the idle screw in.

Tomorrow I will put on a vac hose and continue the oil leak search.

I still would like to know what the trick is to disconnect the big metal intake tube that is next to the intercooler up-pipe so I can take the up-pipe off.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telerding View Post
I still would like to know what the trick is to disconnect the big metal intake tube that is next to the intercooler up-pipe so I can take the up-pipe off.
I guess I don't quite understand what you mean here. The OEM up-pipe is only held in place by the friction of the o-ring between it and the turbo compressor outlet once the intercooler is removed - grab it and pull (not that way - ha ha ha). There is no need to remove the air pipe next to it (which is very difficult to move with the engine in the car).
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The up pipe on my car has a larger diameter section at the bottom end that is "captured" by a bump in the large intake pipe to its left.

It will not disconnect until the intake pipe is moved to the left or raised vertically to allow the up pipe to be removed. This is a late '86 car. See the first picture.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:37 PM
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Mine is the same as the one in the picture (1987 for me) - I have had that pipe out of mine more than 10 times over the years, and I assure you, there is no need to move the air intake pipe. What you have to do is wiggle the up pipe, side to side and back and forth, while pulling upward on it, and as soon as it begins to break free of the o-ring, it becomes very loose and easy to pull to the side and up past the curve of the intake pipe.

However, if you want to loosen the intake pipe, what you have to do is disconnect it from the turbo compressor inlet (silicone coupler with hose clamps) and from the diverter valve housing (same type connection there, too). Once you have done that, the inlet pipe becomes much more moveable.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 07-30-2013 at 10:58 PM..
Old 07-30-2013, 10:50 PM
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Ronnie: I'll give that a try. I appreciate the benefit of your experience.

I may still need to remove the intake pipe, as I am chasing an oil leak buried in that area.

But first things first.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:20 AM
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Up pipe is out, thanks to Ronnie's encouragement. That seemed to give just enough room to allow disconnection of the intake pipe for the turbo.

Its loose, but not out, and probably cannot be taken out while motor is in the car, although I will try. I don't need it out, just out of the way.

Next item is to get the heater air hose on that side off, or at least the upper end disconnected.

I think the oil leak is either: Small oil fitting on the timing chain cover, or turbo oil line feed hose. (actually the hose part of a steel/hose combination line that goes to the turbo).

There is oil on the under side of the oil line hose, and oil pooled in nooks and crannies at the top of the chain cover underneath the hose. Also under the fitting on the chain cover.

Its possible the oil is leaking down from above, but I see no fittings or hoses in the area above that could provide a source. I'll get a picture of the area and post it.
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70 914-6
Old 08-01-2013, 03:22 PM
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After looking carefully, I must revise my previous description, and I have...Pictures!



On the left side of the rear of the engine (towards the back) there are a couple of oil hoses; one starts at the top of the block, behind and to the right of the distributor. It starts as a metal line, then turns into a flexible hose, makes an s-bend downwards, converts back to steel and then connects to a 90 degree elbow or a tee, I cant tell which. There is a hose connector at that point, which connects another steel line which goes directly rearward and turns down the face of the chain cover and connects to a fitting thereon.



The flexible part of the first line appears saturated with oil. The large hose moving front to back touches the first hose and it has oil on the bottom side. The pockets in the top of the engine/head underneath this hose have pooled oil in them.

My thinking at the moment is that the first line is leaking from the hose or from the swaged coupler that connects the steel part of the hose to the flexible (rubber?) part.

Is this a typical failure mode for these hoses?
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70 914-6
Old 08-01-2013, 04:25 PM
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I'm glad you got the pipe off!

Yes, it is common for the turbo oil feed hose to leak at the point you describe.

To replace that with OEM style requires that you remove the intake manifold and all of the parts above it. If you want to do that, a guy that posts here a lot can re-hose your line for a nice price. Another option is to buy the braided line kit that Turbo Kraft sells(no intake manifold removal required though you might have to cut your current like up in order to remove it). There is quite a bit of info on this subject in the following thread -

Correct turbo oil feed line?

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 08-01-2013 at 04:41 PM..
Old 08-01-2013, 04:37 PM
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Ronnie:

I don't think it is that line that is leaking. It is the metal and flexible line that goes side to side behind the distributor, not the turbo feed line, which goes sort of front to back and is much bigger. See my first picture, it snakes left to right, up and down behind the distributor. In the second picture, you can see where it connects to a metal line going to the rear, which goes to the front face of the chain cover.

I'll continue digging tomorrow.
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63 904 (086), 63 904 (038)
70 914-6
Old 08-01-2013, 08:59 PM
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In that case, you must be talking about the left, cam chain tensioner oil line (and they leak, too). I once had the right side line pouring a steady stream on to the ground when the engine was running - leaking from the hose to metal crimp. Here's a link to it -

Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 08-01-2013 at 09:19 PM..
Old 08-01-2013, 09:14 PM
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