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Mike Billings's Avatar
 
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Edit: you said 176 on the Main Straight. So, probably over 180 into turn 5.

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Old 06-21-2014, 11:32 PM
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[/QUOTE]
If you bring 'The Turk' (182) back to Peoria, stay away from that titty bar by the highway. Don't ask me how I know.

This is still the sexiest 911 I've ever seen. That one girl from Fond Du Lac still claims she got pregnant after looking at it.

Last edited by Texlexic; 06-22-2014 at 12:18 PM..
Old 06-22-2014, 01:55 AM
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Rick, is Grams still working that place? Yes, stay far away.

The confusing thing is Peoria, Arizona is named after Peoria, Illinois. It was such a great name they had to use it again.

No one is supposed to know about the roof. Is it too much? Less than 2" chop I think. It wreaked havoc with the pillar angles and window frames. The upside, it's easy to make new windows.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Billings View Post
Edit: you said 176 on the Main Straight. So, probably over 180 into turn 5.
No peak MPH was 176 per the Motec reading of the wheels speed sensor on main straight.

I never checked coming into five. What a breaking point! I do know half way down I grab 4th in my car I was running an upside down 4 speed and third topped at 152 MPH so ....

Your car is really looking slick.. makes me want to build something
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:08 AM
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So that was fast! The ink was barely dry on the drawings.



They still need a few welding operations. The primaries are specified to use the "double slip" connectors that have an additional sealing pipe on the OD to help seal for turbo applications.



Obligatory collector shot. Not even sure how they did that so well!



This is all from SPDexhaust.com
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:29 PM
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You might reconsider the flat design as the primary layout is not symmetrical at the collector.




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Old 06-23-2014, 08:44 PM
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Thanks Brian.

Yes, I think the flat collector is proven to make less HP.

Love your work!
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:50 PM
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I did the same thing with mine Mike. Might not be the best way but my car still ran pretty good.

Beautiful work by the way.



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Old 06-23-2014, 09:55 PM
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Van, I think your layout is the most efficient. Good primary length for a race car. Nice primary routing. Good wastegate setup. The weight of the turbos is moved forward in the chassis. Lots of space for things like exhaust and intake in the fender wells.

That layout likes the flat collectors as well!

Did you design that or do you have an expert?
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:07 AM
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The owner of TiAL designed and built my exhaust, intercooler and turbos.

I had to modify the frame for clearance but we decided to make the run to the intercooler short and the headers as short as possible that's why the turbos are off to the side of the motor and we have these long pipes wrapping around to the back to exit

With the short bellhousing box moving the engine toward the front of the car by two inches all of that did help with the balance of the car.

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Last edited by VZ935; 06-24-2014 at 07:23 AM..
Old 06-24-2014, 07:20 AM
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It's fun to see the big dogs come out. My friends and family think I'm a mad scientist because I have taken my engine and trans out a few times and gotten it back together. I try to explain to them that there are levels, that there guys out there that make what I do seem laughable but they don't believe me. I learned from guys like you, way before the internet and before 500HP was an "add-to-cart" mouse-clicking operation of proven recipes. Much respect for the Yankee ingenuity.

Please keep posting! Speaking just for myself, me and my larger turbo, 1 bar spring, "hooligan" exhaust and drop-on longneck intercooler are looking on... with some humility.

I think I'll go run another practice bead with my Tig welder and amaze my friends.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:24 AM
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It's really something how one member inspires the next and so on.

I'm sure not the expert. I've only recently discovered how many experts are willing to help if I only stop to listen.

I did find that "add to cart" solutions are not nearly as satisfying as learning the hard way.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Billings View Post
It's really something how one member inspires the next and so on.

I'm sure not the expert. I've only recently discovered how many experts are willing to help if I only stop to listen.

I did find that "add to cart" solutions are not nearly as satisfying as learning the hard way.
+1 on that ... lots of good guys here that truly love to help

Kozmo
Old 06-24-2014, 08:13 PM
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Hey Mike, what did you ever feel was the best turbo size? .50? .48? I'm thinking of doing my 3.2 with TT's but mainly for street/canyon use, with the emphasis on responsiveness instead of power (I don't think I would ever go past 350whp).

Awesome thread guys - inspiring. I gotta get my fab skills up to par now
Old 07-30-2014, 10:20 PM
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Ds1: I'll bet your estimates for A/R are much better than mine. I had tried 0.48's initially, and swapped them out for 0.63 in search of top end. It didn't spool any worse, because this engine was a dog up to 4500 RPM naturally aspirated anyway. So it makes from 2-7 psi at 4500 RPM now. With leaky headers.

The housings are 0.63 stage III. The exducer bore is about 61mm, so it fits the inside of a 2.5" exhaust just right. The turbine wheels are similar to this 65mm/56.3mm:

Turbo Turbine Wheel Garrett T3/T4 Stage 3 / 76 Trim 65mm/56.3mm 11 Blade

Pressure ratio (exhaust/intake) is less than 2.0 now. If it was a race car, I think we'd want that a little lower. So I think it wants a slightly larger wheel for ultimate power.

With regards to fab, I'm thinking I'll use the low-buck TIG just to tack weld next time, then take it to a pro to finish. If I don't do the tack welds myself, then I have to build an elaborate welding jig to hold the parts for the pro.
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:49 AM
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Here's two datalogs of the same pull in 2nd gear. The boost curve is red on the first datalog. That was using the twin 65mm turbines in 0.63 A/R Stage III housings: Now I see how much lag there is in 2nd gear, only 4.4 psi at 5435 RPM.





Until now, I didn't realize the boost was so low because it pulls fine normally aspirated with the 2.8L in a car that weighs 1900 lbs wet. Note in the second datalog with the white background, the forward acceleration (brown) trace varies from -0.6g to -0.8g. Maybe a little more boost at low RPM would help where the accel is down at -0.6g. Updating the leaky old headers and tweaking the timing might help.

I don't think we want a whole lot more boost at low RPM. We try to keep the accel under 1g at speed!

Injectors are 83 lb/hr (Summit) this time. Average fuel pressure is around 70 psi (blue trace, second datalog), so they are good for about 100 lbs/hr each. This pull used 70% of the injector capacity (Duty Cycle, first datalog), but redline is a little higher than we saw on this pull, so I think the injectors are finally big enough using 70 psi fuel pressure. Plumbing the fuel rails in parallel and keeping the tank over half full has eliminated the drops in fuel pressure.



Using a mid-range Magnafuel pump now.



Notice the green MAF trace on the second datalog exceeds 1000 kg/hr. That's for the left bank of cylinders. Total air flow for the engine at this point on the datalog is over 4400 lbs/hr. At the same point on the datalog the total fuel rate is 420 lbs/hr, so calculated AFR would be around 10.5, The pink O2 trace on the second datalog indicates AFR is a bit leaner than that.



I've read that turbo motors with narrow lobe center cams tend to pass a lot of air without making the horsepower you would expect. I think that is what is going on here. WOT VE on the top row is 140%, so it's moving more air than I would expect.



The cams are the Crane-P306. They are advertised to be designed for street turbo applications but I don't think the specs look right for that. Effective duration is a healthy 272 crankshaft degrees and lobe separation is only 102 camshaft degrees. They are spec'd like 3.0 RSR Sprint cams. Probably has an ancient ramp design, however.



Here the P306 is on another list that was I think compiled by a fellow Pelican.



Maybe there is some valve float above 7500 RPM, even with race springs? Has anyone seen the same effect of narrow cams causing high VE's on a turbo?
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
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Has anyone seen the same effect of narrow cams causing high VE's on a turbo?
Yes. TurboKraft has a camshaft profile with a narrow lobe separation and, if the engine is free-flowing on the intake and exhaust, you get an absolute torque monster that pulls to redline. Very nice with the ITBs.
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:24 AM
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Chris, I see your point if the engine is set up correctly with a narrow cam it can be a good combination.

In my case, I'm not sure if it's making horsepower or just pumping extra air.
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:39 AM
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Finishing up a top side refresh:






The mag throttles and fan housing were cleaned up by American Soda Blasters in Mesa AZ. Really nice people to work with there. I should have asked them to take two hours and make them perfect.

The fan shroud has had a hard life but is enjoying a new coat of Duplicolor Graphite wheel paint.

I made a new engine harness using MIL-W-22579/16 Tefzel insulated. Easy when there are only 7 wires! The harness is routed under the fan shroud.
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:21 AM
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Couple pics with the 4" plenums screwed on:





One expert felt the plenums might be too small for a track car when they were 3" square. Thanks George.

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Old 02-16-2017, 05:20 AM
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