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Researching complete a/c install do I have a problem?

I want to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge and advice in the past. As I research installing a complete a/c unit into my 81 911 there are a few things that don't look the same on this car as I have seen in other threads. Maybe it is the year model I am working on. I think the car had air at one time because there is a wiring harness in the smuggler's box and it still had a front condenser on it when I got it. When comparing the smuggler's box to a couple of others I see differences. First: Do I need the exact year model evaporator box? Second did they all have the front condenser blower motor? I don't have a hole for this above the condenser.
here is my box:

here is a sample from Griffith's:

From gsxrken's Griffith's AC upgrade for 930 install thread:

also from gsxrken's: front condenser blower motor thread

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Steve
1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-05-2014, 01:36 PM
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:13 PM
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My 79 euro has (had) A/C.
I have a front condenser but no hole in the floor of the trunk to mount a blower motor.
I do have all the holes in the S.B. for the evaporator however.
I don't even see the drain hose for the fresh air box on yours. Is it there?
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:28 PM
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Steve, based on the picture of your car's smuggler's box, it looks like your car was not equipped with factory a/c. For starters, I'll identify various factory a/c things in the Griff picture -

1 = the primary evaporator intake cutout - a large, shallow plastic intake spout goes there, attached to the footwell wall on the passenger side, and protrudes into the intake opening in the actual evaporator box. Also, the fan resistor pack is attached to the spout.

2 = the evaporator condensation drain spout sticks through that hole - the spout is part of the evaporator box.

3 = the secondary evaporator box air intake which picks air up from the driver footwell area (sort of in the center, though). The evaporator box has a circle opening in it and simply sits on that opening and is sealed with a foam insulation ring. I don't know if early 911s had this, though.

4 = that duct is connected to the evaporator fan discharge spout and branches off to the dash a/c ducting (aka - cold air enters the cabin through there). Your car looks to have this in place.

It's hard to understand why your car would have had a front condenser since it doesn't appear that smuggler's box was ever set-up for a/c. Does your car have the a/c thermostat and fan speed knobs in the in the shifter column? What about any a/c related fuses in the front fuse panel?

I can't tell what the non-connected wires in your picture are for - one might be the power and ground connection for an evaporator fan and the other might be for the a/c system relay (the connector sort of looks too small for that, though).

I don't know if the earliest 911s with factor air had the front condenser blower fan, but I'm pretty sure they did by 1981. That little nose condenser is almost useless without a fan to blow air over it.

All of the factory evaporator box bottoms through 1989 are the same (that is the area that houses the evaporator core), the removable top portion (houses the fan and fan motor) is different starting in 1986 . . . either top can be used on the same bottom, however the fan blades and motors are different.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 12-05-2014 at 02:49 PM..
Old 12-05-2014, 02:31 PM
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So the answer is yes - I have a problem. I guess I can spend my money on a new set of wheels, roll the windows down and just try to look CL
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1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-05-2014, 02:45 PM
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Steve, no a/c in TexASS sucks Paul'sballs, but another thing to consider with your car is that the a/c ducting and dash vents in the 1981 model also really sucks Paul'sballs - much better setup on the later models (I think starting in 1986, but definitely by 1987).
Old 12-05-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Steve, no a/c in TexASS sucks Paul'sballs, but another thing to consider with your car is that the a/c ducting and dash vents in the 1981 model also really sucks Paul'sballs - much better setup on the later models (I think starting in 1986, but definitely by 1987).
I did a 100 mile blast thru the canyons this summer at 100* and !00mph running with the PCA club in their water cooled twin turbo air conditioned pdk hotrods. It was hot but guess who had more fun!
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1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-05-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Steve, no a/c in TexASS sucks Paul'sballs, but another thing to consider with your car is that the a/c ducting and dash vents in the 1981 model also really sucks Paul'sballs - much better setup on the later models (I think starting in 1986, but definitely by 1987).
Yup.. starting in 1986 the dash was much improved with better AC ducting that included large square side AC ducts and a larger and better looking center AC duct.
You can also remove the bow tie duct cover under the center of the dash and use it for another duct that blows air you can feel.
Also the dashboard material was changed from '86 on so it didn't swell up in a really weird way like most of the older cars did from being parked outdoors in hot sun for years.

When I was looking at 930's in summer 2006 I only considered 1986 and newer ones because of the better AC ducts. Living in hot humid South Florida I want to have AC that works good.
I drove a BMW 2002 without AC for years down here in the early eightees and from mid June to late September it really sucked. Drive the car for 10 minutes or longer and your shirt is totally soaked along with the back of the seat.
Gotta have good AC in the southern states during summer.
Old 12-05-2014, 05:03 PM
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Steve, one other thing I want to mention is that if putting a/c in your car becomes a goal, it can be done regardless of whether or not it originally came with factory a/c. Depending on your level of experience, and/or your tolerance for from-scratch, project headaches, you could assemble and install a complete a/c system in piecemeal fashion, or you could even buy a complete kit from a shop like Retroair here in the DFW area. I see they even have kits for 911s that did not originally come with a/c.

Porsche, Jaguar, Ferrari, MG, TR6, Alfa Romeo A/C Kits & Parts

Jim, I got lucky when I bought my 1987 back in 2006 as I did not know anything about the differences in the a/c ducting between older and later models back then (all I knew was that it had functioning a/c but that I would need to modify it quite a bit to suit me).

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 12-05-2014 at 06:59 PM..
Old 12-05-2014, 06:54 PM
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I saw the big square side AC ducts in the '86 through '89 cars while looking at 930's on the internet and decided then I would only get an '86 or later.
I've had two 1969 912's with the little angled sliver side ducts and those things are a joke. They're way too small to move any air.

I ended up replacing everything in the AC system in my '87 anyway.. but it has the later dashboard and better AC ducts.

Last edited by JFairman; 12-05-2014 at 07:57 PM..
Old 12-05-2014, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Steve, one other thing I want to mention is that if putting a/c in your car becomes a goal, it can be done regardless of whether or not it originally came with factory a/c. Depending on your level of experience, and/or your tolerance for from-scratch, project headaches, you could assemble and install a complete a/c system in piecemeal fashion, or you could even buy a complete kit from a shop like Retroair here in the DFW area. I see they even have kits for 911s that did not originally come with a/c.

Porsche, Jaguar, Ferrari, MG, TR6, Alfa Romeo A/C Kits & Parts

Jim, I got lucky when I bought my 1987 back in 2006 as I did not know anything about the differences in the a/c ducting between older and later models back then (all I knew was that it had functioning a/c but that I would need to modify it quite a bit to suit me).
Ronnie
Thanks for the link to Retroair in Dallas I will look into this. Has anyone done one of these on a 78-84 930 or turbo SC? Have pictures?
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1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-06-2014, 04:42 AM
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FWIW, here's another AC place that does 911's in Texas. I think they're in or nearby San Antonio.
RennAire Porsche 911 Air Conditioning Products
Old 12-06-2014, 07:06 AM
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I stripped out all the OEM AC components from my 76 930 and installed a complete Grifs triple condenser. It would turn my kneecaps blue.
Old 12-06-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
FWIW, here's another AC place that does 911's in Texas. I think they're in or nearby San Antonio.
RennAire Porsche 911 Air Conditioning Products
Thanks JFairman for the link to Rennaire. I will check into what they offer. If anyone has done a Rennaire conversion on a non a/c 911 let me know how it worked out.
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1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-06-2014, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
FWIW, here's another AC place that does 911's in Texas. I think they're in or nearby San Antonio.
RennAire Porsche 911 Air Conditioning Products
WTH?!?! Didn't know they are in SA and I lived there most of my life.

I have a friend who works at Vintage Air that I'll use when I pull the trigger.
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Old 12-06-2014, 06:51 PM
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WTH?!?! Didn't know they are in SA and I lived there most of my life.

I have a friend who works at Vintage Air that I'll use when I pull the trigger.

Thanks for the heads up, I didn't realize there were so many options for a/c system parts these days. I went to the Vintage Air website Vintage Air - Inventors of Performance Air Conditioning - www.vintageair.com and they don't list anything euro, just FCM!
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1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 12-07-2014, 04:45 AM
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Yeah, VA doesn't have Porsche upgrades, I was going to create everything from scratch.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 12-07-2014, 04:54 AM
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No A/C isn't much of an option in 110F+ Arizona summer temperatures.
TurboKraft overhauled a few 911/930 A/C systems recently.
In 1986-89 chassis, driving in stop-and-go traffic with 114F ambient temperatures, we were getting 30.4F from the center dash vents using R134a refrigerant.
* stock rotary A/C compressor (1984-89 style)
* stock front condenser, functioning blower (add inline fuse for safety)
* 964/993 condenser assembly in left front fender beneath headlight
* aftermarket serpentine evap core
* aftermarket serpentine rear condenser in wing -- customer had just replaced, but almost redundant because of the 964/993 condenser (have done other 930s w/o the rear condenser, still very cold)
* all new R134a-compatible lines, locally made
Not an inexpensive overhaul, but good for the next 20+ years of the vehicle's life.

And to replace the 2.5 gallon washer tank: we replace the factory RV/marine sized battery with a conventionally sized unit, and install a small fluid tank with integral pump. All the factory wiring and hoses are right there, so not difficult at all.
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:26 AM
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"factory RV/marine sized battery"
lol...

Old 12-07-2014, 10:34 AM
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