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Ds1 Ds1 is offline
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MSD Boost Timing Master for Tuning 3.2 Carrera Turbo Conversion?

Hey guys,

I was going to run a BEGi fuel unit and then get a custom tune of the EPROMS chip for timing for my 3.2 turbo conversion, but the only issue is I cannot change the timing after if I want to go up or down with boost, etc.

I do NOT want to go standalone. The MSD Boost master has quite a bit of adjustability, for less money than getting a custom EPROMS tune. Do you agree that would be a better solution? Any other ideas/concerns?

Old 01-04-2015, 12:42 PM
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Heres a link in case you aren't farmiliar: MSD Ignition 8762, MSD Boost Timing Master | MSD Ignition
Old 01-04-2015, 12:43 PM
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BEGI and MSD BTM is all you need.

That is better than a custom chip for the Motronic due to the way Motronic works.

If you run a custom chip, when you go WOT, the WOT switch is activated telling the ECU you are under boost (if you actually are under boost or not, it doesn't know any better), and the timing is retarded slowing boost onset and less hp before the boost comes on.

Another byproduct is if you were to lift slightly while under full boost. The WOT switch deactivates and your timing goes up to NA levels along with leaner AFR's. Double-whammy.
Old 01-04-2015, 01:02 PM
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Look into the J&S Safeguard as well. Has the capability to retard timing based on boost and also gives you knock protection.
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Old 01-04-2015, 01:06 PM
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VERY interesting. Never knew the WOT switch did that much. I'm really glad I made this post already!
Old 01-04-2015, 02:44 PM
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My setup exactly. BEGI with MSD 6BTM Boost retard. Works great. I also ditched the barn door AFM for a FORD MAF (late 90's Mustang type) with Split Second controller. Not quite 21st century pressure sensor technology but a lot better then what was there. The setup works awesome.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ds1 View Post
Hey guys,

I was going to run a BEGi fuel unit and then get a custom tune of the EPROMS chip for timing for my 3.2 turbo conversion, but the only issue is I cannot change the timing after if I want to go up or down with boost, etc.

I do NOT want to go standalone. The MSD Boost master has quite a bit of adjustability, for less money than getting a custom EPROMS tune. Do you agree that would be a better solution? Any other ideas/concerns?
I have a new 8762 MSD boost master if your interested. Bought it, and decided to go EFI instead. Philip
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
My setup exactly. BEGI with MSD 6BTM Boost retard. Works great. I also ditched the barn door AFM for a FORD MAF (late 90's Mustang type) with Split Second controller. Not quite 21st century pressure sensor technology but a lot better then what was there. The setup works awesome.
Tell me more about the MAF and second controller. What exact ones? I was planning to ditch the flapper box at the same time but it's tough to find exactly which is compatible
Old 01-04-2015, 04:35 PM
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You'll need the controller https://splitsec.com/product/arc2-a/ and a MAF. I just bought a new one that fits a 98 Mustang V6. Since Im using a suck thru system I had to trim the MAF to accommodate a K&N type filter. I noticed the car runs much smoother and feels like a new car. Air/fuel ratios are always where they need to be throughout the rpm range. I'm very happy with the setup.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
You'll need the controller https://splitsec.com/product/arc2-a/ and a MAF. I just bought a new one that fits a 98 Mustang V6. Since Im using a suck thru system I had to trim the MAF to accommodate a K&N type filter. I noticed the car runs much smoother and feels like a new car. Air/fuel ratios are always where they need to be throughout the rpm range. I'm very happy with the setup.
HOLY CRAP that thing is expensive for what it is. Looks like I'm sticking with my AFM for now, lol!
Old 01-04-2015, 07:17 PM
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Does anyone know of a good install thread on a 3.2 911? I've only found ones for CIS cars and 930's.
Old 01-05-2015, 05:20 AM
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Most of the MAF kits are easily over $1500,00 so its really a cost effective solution. Plus the MAF kits usually just come with a chip so there's no adjustability. You can use the barn door, it will work fine, you just need to go push thru. I've heard some people say that the AFM's dont last too long under boost, but I ran mine like that for years without any problem. I would just go BEGI with the MSD and stock AFM to get it going for now. There are dozens of threads detailing the 3.2 on boost.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:27 AM
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I've been running the BEGI and MSD6 BTM for about a year now. It is a good setup for what it is and I could be happy driving it on the street with short periods of boost, but for anything more sustained or serious it lacks tunability. With the small BW turbo I am running I am at my 1/2 bar limit by about 3200rpm, that means no additional enrichment or timing retard past that point. I see my AFRs climbing uncomfortably about 5500 and I'm never really sure where I am with the timing. My next step will be going to the Bosch 044 pump and then most likely Megasquirt. Let me know if you need any pointers if you end up going this way.

Here is a post I made about adding a turbo to my NA car
3.2 conversion progress
Old 01-05-2015, 09:45 AM
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Most of the MAF kits are easily over $1500,00 so its really a cost effective solution. Plus the MAF kits usually just come with a chip so there's no adjustability. You can use the barn door, it will work fine, you just need to go push thru. I've heard some people say that the AFM's dont last too long under boost, but I ran mine like that for years without any problem. I would just go BEGI with the MSD and stock AFM to get it going for now. There are dozens of threads detailing the 3.2 on boost.
Ditto.

My AFM lasted years of boosting, no problems at all.
Old 01-05-2015, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rodsrsr View Post
Most of the MAF kits are easily over $1500,00 so its really a cost effective solution. Plus the MAF kits usually just come with a chip so there's no adjustability. You can use the barn door, it will work fine, you just need to go push thru. I've heard some people say that the AFM's dont last too long under boost, but I ran mine like that for years without any problem. I would just go BEGI with the MSD and stock AFM to get it going for now. There are dozens of threads detailing the 3.2 on boost.
I've had those old Bosch barn door air flow meters apart many times when modifying and tuning old single cam 3.5 liter six cylinder BMW's with L-Jetronic injection.
They used the same air flow meter housing early Motronic used with a different circuit board inside and the wound up clock spring tension on the barn door is adjustable. So is the position of the barn door stylus on the circuit boards resistance trace.

Boost would have no wear effect on the air flow meter. It's very solidly made and I've never heard of the bearings for the barn door wearing out.

There is a better one though... Toyota made a nice copy of it on the old Toyota Supra.
The Toyota one is a much lighter alloy that weighs a lot less and it flows more CFM of air than the Bosch housing. I remember reading it flows more from a BMW tuner that tested them on a flow bench.
Also the aluminum top cover of the Toyota AFM is screwed on with philips head screws so it can be removed and the inside can then be ported to flow more air while the barn door is in the full open position. The Bosch top cover is riveted and glued on and you'd destroy it trying to remove it.

Use a bead of clear silicone sealant to seal the cast aluminum cover when reinstalling it on the Toyota housing if you remove it to port the inside of it.
The black plastic cover over the circuit boards in both of them can be carefully pried off and then the circuit board is held in place with small screws and it can be removed from the Bosch housing and installed into the Toyota housing.

After doing all that you readjust the clock spring preload tension on the barn door and then adjust the idle air bypass screw for the CO adjustment.

Very few people know about this old barn door AFM upgrade and the old Toyota Supra Bosch copy AFM housings are in salvage yards... If I remember correctly they were made by Nippondenso for Toyota.
Old 01-05-2015, 10:39 AM
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I was going to use a Supra on mine.
Old 01-05-2015, 11:24 AM
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I've been running the BEGI and MSD6 BTM for about a year now. It is a good setup for what it is and I could be happy driving it on the street with short periods of boost, but for anything more sustained or serious it lacks tunability. With the small BW turbo I am running I am at my 1/2 bar limit by about 3200rpm, that means no additional enrichment or timing retard past that point. I see my AFRs climbing uncomfortably about 5500 and I'm never really sure where I am with the timing. My next step will be going to the Bosch 044 pump and then most likely Megasquirt. Let me know if you need any pointers if you end up going this way.



Here is a post I made about adding a turbo to my NA car

3.2 conversion progress
Nice thread, really clean install, that's exactly the way I was planning to route the piping. Nice and simple.

Couldn't you just do 951 or the Ford injectors to flow more fuel and richen up your AFR's? They aren't that expensive and super easy to swap out.

VERY interested how you hooked everything up (MSD specifically, can't find any resources specifically 3.2 related on the internet). As I learned with my previous turbo project, sometimes the most confusing part is where to hook up some freaking wires...
Old 01-05-2015, 06:20 PM
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It'll be rich across the board.
Old 01-05-2015, 06:26 PM
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The MSD6 BTM hook up is pretty straight forward. The heavy RED and Black go to the Battery( I think I picked it up at the starter). Disconnect the two wires going to your coil noting which was on the + side. Connect the small red to the wire that was on the + side and the white wire to the lead that had been on the - side. The small black wire goes to the - side of the coil and the orange to the +
Old 01-06-2015, 04:34 AM
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Wow.... That is easy. So no extra special distributer needed or anything, just the MSD6BTM and go? Heck, that might be the first thing I do for trouble shooting reasons.

I also just happened to PM you at the same time you were writing this. Thanks!

Old 01-06-2015, 05:26 AM
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