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Turbofrog
 
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Modding BB headers?

Is this a good design for flow with one Tial46? Blue part gone and the two pipes connect just before the heater pipe. Driver side bend is pretty tight though.

How big pipes are good enough for one tial46 and for about 500whp?

Is it hard to remove the heat exchangers? I'm going to install a gas heater for cabin heat s othose are extra weight in wrong place.


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79 930: HX40Super, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, BB+2*turbosmart38, WMI. Weight 1110kg
Old 11-05-2016, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
Is this a good design for flow with one Tial46? Blue part gone and the two pipes connect just before the heater pipe. Driver side bend is pretty tight though.

How big pipes are good enough for one tial46 and for about 500whp?

Is it hard to remove the heat exchangers? I'm going to install a gas heater for cabin heat s othose are extra weight in wrong place.

For my part I changed the angle of exit(release) of the tube and put it to 30 as recommend him(it) the builder(manufacturer) of wastegate " turbo precision ", I also put in the place(square) a tube in 60 mm ID and PW66.




Old 11-05-2016, 10:18 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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My goal is to get it devided farther back to the wg so there is no reversion for the flow.
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Old 11-05-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
My goal is to get it devided farther back to the wg so there is no reversion for the flow.
A little as that of Rarly8?
Old 11-05-2016, 11:30 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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I haven't seen one like this but Brian has done sets with two wgs. I would like to see pics of this design though!
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Old 11-05-2016, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
I haven't seen one like this but Brian has done sets with two wgs. I would like to see pics of this design though!
Best would be to ask he directly, he has many models.
Old 11-05-2016, 02:53 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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this is a better pic. Maybe if I take the passenger side after the connection it would be easier to install and make.
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Old 11-05-2016, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
My goal is to get it devided farther back to the wg so there is no reversion for the flow.
Been wanting to do the same.
Old 11-05-2016, 04:02 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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Pic of the easier to mod options

Here the passenger pipe exits after slip on fit so no need for wg pipe slip fit!
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Old 11-06-2016, 03:27 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Here driver side with wider radius bend.
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Old 11-06-2016, 03:30 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Hahaa, no returning back.
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:24 AM
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I find that it is a very good idea to do that way.
Old 11-06-2016, 04:36 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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One more option. One bigger pipe devided all the way to wg flange.
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:39 AM
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twin scroll

I did the same to mine but went twin scroll. Make sure to extend the tubing up to the end of the flange/gasket to turbo flange. Philip

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Old 11-06-2016, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
One more option. One bigger pipe devided all the way to wg flange.
The angle of exit is not good for the left-hand side, it has to be good for both sides.
Old 11-06-2016, 04:57 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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That foampipe was too short for good angles but shows the idea of split pipe. This way the pipe has to be bigger to not induce bottleneck when volume is splitted. Not good for flow so hopefully the pic with close the flange exits on bends can be made so that turbo oil flange and hot side flange still have access and drain tank still fits. I could use gravity drain but some have had problems with it.
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Old 11-06-2016, 07:02 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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BTW. These are all for twin scroll getting the most out of the design meaning separate flow for each bank but with only one wg. Twin wg cost too much when I already have one good tial46.
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Old 11-06-2016, 07:57 AM
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Old 11-06-2016, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
BTW. These are all for twin scroll getting the most out of the design meaning separate flow for each bank but with only one wg. Twin wg cost too much when I already have one good tial46.
Yes, having the WG tubes come off the secondary pipes at a longer angle is preferable. Make their flow path be the path of least resistance once you hit desired boost so energy wants to dump out the WGs.

Then try to make those merge 2-into-1 smoothly, then the WG.

But...

The longer the path to the WG, the less efficient. The B&B headers work better already once you shorten the WG feed pipe, less boost creep.
Even better if you re-do the angle of the WG pipe that joins into the headers.

The 46mm WG only flows so well with its valve housing design. The 45mm WG out-flows it thanks to a better designed housing. It is superior for single WG applications --but not a bolt-on for our engines.

If this is all for twin scroll, I'd encourage you to just do twin wastegates. Consider a pair of 40mm Turbosmart Compgates. May not be too expensive after you sell your good 46mm WG.

Also: don't forget you have to divide your headers all the way up through the flange to get the most from the system.


Personally, I think cutting off the heat exchangers and doing an aux gas heater sounds crazy. The heater boxes aren't that heavy, and they are below the axle line. So what if they are behind the axle? I will bet you that the total weight of all that gas heater stuff adds up to be more, plus you have all the additional plumbing.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:07 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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The design you have proposed in post #10 doesn't look too bad. Everything is a compromise, you just need to reduce the negatives as much as is reasonable.

For true split plenum you need to separate the banks completely:






To use a single wastegate in the stock location (compromise) we still take a signal from each bank in a more free flowing transition than standard elephant nose.





Anything you do will be better than the dreaded elephant nose which is just horrible flow.

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Old 11-07-2016, 07:04 PM
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