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We have had issues with Millenium honing as well... Yes, the do the work for LN as well, but Charles gets things pretty dialed and likely has his own spec.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:11 PM
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Thanks for the feedback with your experiences Jeff!
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:49 AM
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This is still a cluster f##k as my builder just throws his hands up and says he doesnít understand why this is happening. Iím on my own now.
Iíll run it for a least another season and then maybe tear it down myself.
Old 03-21-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 Rod View Post
Thinking out loud here.
I noticed a whistle sound under throttle. Now that it is cold out it doesn't start as well as it should.
Could a vacuum leak be the culprit to oil usage?
What kind or whistle? constant or a fast pulse, the latter can be a head leak.
Do you have a WB meter? what is your AFR? But I don't think this would be your oil issue.

Not sure on the 911, but with a 996 engine too much vacuum (faulty AOS) will cause issues with the JE rings, nikasil rings are low tension.

I have reasonably priced WB meters that I now sell (several in stock) and I'm also considering offering a rental unit.
I build them with custom length harness for 914 and 911 or a longer temporary install harness.
PM me if interested.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Henry View Post
What kind or whistle? constant or a fast pulse, the latter can be a head leak.
Do you have a WB meter? what is your AFR? But I don't think this would be your oil issue.

Not sure on the 911, but with a 996 engine too much vacuum (faulty AOS) will cause issues with the JE rings, nikasil rings are low tension.

I have reasonably priced WB meters that I now sell (several in stock) and I'm also considering offering a rental unit.
I build them with custom length harness for 914 and 911 or a longer temporary install harness.
PM me if interested.
The whistle sound in under throttle. Not sure about WFO as the exhaust drowns out everything.
I have an AFR gauge.
Old 03-21-2019, 05:48 PM
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I was cleaning out my email and I made a note to read this and respond. Slipped my mind to respond with my question.......

What baffles me here is how the Millennium Technologies cylinder plating could be honed wrong. Reason I say that is LN Engineering uses Millennium to plate their Nickies cylinders and they use the same JE pistons (or CP, or Mahle) that we would choose to use in our old cylinders. So the honing spec on the Nickies plating should be the same as the re-plating of the old cylinders, since both would be using the same JE piston rings.
But it isn't. We have our own standards Millennium uses for finishing Nickies and our in-house quality control includes checks for ovality, taper, and also surface finishes. Every cylinder gets checked for Rk, RpK, and RvK - not Ra.
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Old 04-05-2019, 04:09 AM
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But it isn't. We have our own standards Millennium uses for finishing Nickies and our in-house quality control includes checks for ovality, taper, and also surface finishes. Every cylinder gets checked for Rk, RpK, and RvK - not Ra.
Thanks for the reply Charles. If I have them do it again, would you be able to run them through your quality control?
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Old 04-05-2019, 05:21 AM
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Thanks for the reply Charles. If I have them do it again, would you be able to run them through your quality control?
Sure thing. We do offer reconditioning of cylinders through LN. Any cylinder we recondition goes through this process standard. That's why we charge more for this service.
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Old 04-05-2019, 05:48 AM
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Thanks for the definitive answers!
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:04 AM
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What hp increase can be expected from the 3.2 to 3.4 increase? Does the 89 Carrera have nikasils or does it not matter as they will be bored to 3.4?
Weighing the pros and cons now.

Chris
89 Carrera 3.2
Old 04-08-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cmcfaul View Post
What hp increase can be expected from the 3.2 to 3.4 increase? Does the 89 Carrera have nikasils or does it not matter as they will be bored to 3.4?
Weighing the pros and cons now.

Chris
89 Carrera 3.2
Let's not forget this is only a 6.25% in displacement and I would think the horsepower increase would be about the same.
I did a few other things, as most would do. 964 cams. Lightened clutch and flywheel. 1.75" headers and of course a chip. Soon putting on a Maf.
Stock being 207 hp. I would think I'm up around 240 hp (didn't bother to do a dyno), but it revs much snappier now.

With what this cost I could have sold it and bought a 993.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:40 AM
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contemplating displacement increase or going the other direction, lower compression and turbo. Car is a heavy beast, needs a bit more HP.

Thanks

Chris

89 Carrera
Old 04-09-2019, 06:15 AM
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Nikasil or Alusil doesn't matter since they'll be bored and re-plated.

If you're looking for bang for your buck with engine work, low boost turbo BY FAR surpasses the naturally aspirated higher compression and displacement increase to 3.4 or 3.5. Plus you have a G50 transmission that can actually withstand the substantial torque increase.
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Old 04-09-2019, 07:50 AM
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For the money on a 911 engine, you'd really struggle to beat going turbo. Say you splurge a bit on parts going turbo: Brian's headers for $2700 and GT3071r turbo (internally gated) for $1000. You'd still need a fuel pressure regulator and a new chip, but if you kept boost low, you could run without an intercooler on your current engine. Or get an intercooler for few hundred for some piece of mind and a few more pounds of boost (I would definitely recommend this).

If you go big bore and already have 3.2 cylinders to send in, that used to be about $600 for bore and plate. Plus new pistons, which at JE are now up to $1800. If you don't go twin plug, you'll be limited on compression. Then, you'll want a different set of headers to improve airflow through the engine. A set of SSI are like $1000, but you might want bigger primaries. On top of that, you're looking at minimum some engine tear down, which incurs its own costs. And to end, you would want a new chip.

Both setups would probably get a new muffler and chip, so that evens out. The turbo comes in around maybe $4200. The big bore comes in around $3400 plus rebuild. But with the turbo, you could easily have 300hp. Without a compression bump on the big bore, the displacement gets you around 6% plus whatever you pick up with a freer exhaust and better tune. Say it all adds up to 15%, that's only 250hp. Upgrading down the road is where you really see a difference. For an extra $2500 or so for pistons, injectors, and fuel pump, your turbo setup is now good up to around 400hp where I've been told the 3.2 cams top out. For NA, you'll need twin plug, new cams, and high compression pistons (cams/pistons are min $2300), and even then you're only looking at like 275-285hp if I remember correctly.

This is a pretty top level look at the two builds. I'm by no means an expert, so if others see errors, I'll gladly fix them. There's always those odds and ends that add in to the price, but I think these are the big ticket items you'd be purchasing.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:37 AM
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Current pricing for bore and replate cylinders is $240 each for end user pricing. So figure about double the estimate of $600 for the set of six

https://www.millennium-tech.net/serviceInfo.php?id=7
https://www.usnicom.com/plating/pricing

CP pistons are on par with JE pistons and those are around $1200 for a set for an off the shelf set. You're right that twin plug comes into play and that starts us down another road of which twin plug solution to use- 964/993 dual distributor, JB Racing or Burnham 12 pin distributor with two MSD units, Electromotive ("dumb" coil boards or COP),........ All of this requires the chip mapping to accompany it or a replacement of the Motronic ECU. Original 3.2 exhaust can support it (best to install a cat bypass pipe and a free flowing muffler) but most like to go with equal length headers. If this displacement increase is done while already into an engine for a rebuild, the cost escalation climbs rapidly!

When all said and done with the NA build, we've put a lot of $ into it for not much return. The power increase is certainly noticeable but it's not earth shattering. It's not like installing a 3.6 from a 964 or 993. I think if I had a G50 car, I would lean toward the turbo install. It makes a LOT more torque, more than a 3.6, and I think most people would like the benefit of that.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:03 AM
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Engine has 110k miles and due for a top end rebuild. While its out (this summer) have to decide. Has a turbo tail so intercooler is logical. Could lower the compression with new 3.2 turbo pistons or, correct me if I am wrong, thicker cylinder gaskets and current pistons (if in spec). The rest of the turbo install gets complicated as a simple increase in displacement is easy. I would be doing most of the work in my small garage. Getting over my head is a concern. Rebuilt my 2.4 E twice in 10 years (burned a piston). so some experience.

Other concern is car value. Which option makes it less of a bastard? Its currently bone stock except chip, cat bypass and muffler.

really on the fence as to what to do.

Chris
Old 04-09-2019, 10:01 AM
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Dang, I didn't realize the bore/replate had gone up so much. And yeah, going twin plug has tons of options, with the possibility of getting quite expensive, which is why I didn't even touch it. I'm in the middle of a rebuild on my 3.2 turbo conversion. It started out as an NA build, but I didn't like where I saw the realistic limit being set. Unfortunately for my turbo build, CP (as far as I can find) only does 9.5, 10.5, and 11.5:1 pistons, which means I'll still be paying up for the new gen JE pistons.
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Old 04-09-2019, 10:09 AM
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Chris,
If you want to keep your car as close to stock for a turbo route, I've seen an exhaust pipe that basically replaces the catalytic converter and feeds into the turbo at the stock location. Then you just need an up pipe in to the engine bay/intercooler, a bit of piping from intercooler to throttle body, and what I forgot was an oil line to/from the turbo.The piping should be pretty easy as you can get a prefabbed intercooler to fit the turbo tail you already have which leaves a pretty much straight section and a 180 bend section. There's several members here that are running 0.5 bar of boost on (I think, might be 9.0) the stock 9.5:1 pistons. I have also heard of shimming the heads with thicker gaskets, but I don't remember where, and at this point couldn't possibly say one way or the other. All of this would be easily removed to return to stock and just drop the old chip back in. As for NA, yes, it's easier since you are just swapping the piston/cylinder set during a rebuild. Twin plug will add a bit more complexity, but there's plenty of folks out there who can help once you pick a route. In terms of which is easier, I would argue if you can do a full rebuild yourself, the turbo kit should not be any harder, just a little different. I think for a modest rebuild budget, the question is do you want an extra ~35hp, or ~80hp at the associated cost. As for what will happen to the car's value, I've never stopped to think about it. My plan is do what I want with the money I've got, and anything lost in a potential sale is the cost of enjoying the project. Unfortunately, no one can tell you which you will enjoy more (because NA vs turbo certainly have a bit of character to them), only give you a ride in their setup and let you decide for yourself.
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Old 04-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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