do I need to hone this?

[ChrisBennet]

The shop I use for balancing wasn't too impressed with the balance of Skat cranks.
-Chris

[cnavarro]

Same here. FYI, my scat crank for my '66 912 was *way* out of balance, out of the box. Carrillos were right on. Crank was the STD weight, not the ultralight. All of the heavy metal came off the rear-most counterweight.

before


after

[real550A]

Thanks to all who provided the GREAT information in this thread!
I just read the whole thread, and learned much!

[Turbo_pro]

Another great debate.

[afterburn 549]

No, no debate when there is a right way and wrong way....

[snowman]

There is right way. THere is NO wrong way.

[afterburn 549]

as long as it is..........ballanced . That would be the right way.

[snowman]

correct

[sww914]

Early in this thread, someone (maybe Henry) said that they didn't know the grit of a red Scotch-Brite. I've used them for 20 years in autobody and while there is no official grit rating for
Scotch-Brites, the red is very close to 400 wet sanding. It will be a bit coarser if you press really hard, especially wet. The gray is very close to 1000 grit, green is more like 280-320, and white has virtually no abrasive effect at all, we mostly use them for cleaning overspray off of glass. They only seem to dull, not really scratch glossy paint, they will scratch soft aluminum a little bit.
Thanks for another great thread guys, it's nice to learn the easy way for a change.

[snowman]

All is in balance, all in harmony, all is well.

[Turbo_pro]

Of course there's a debate. An age old debate about style and craftsmanship.
The debate is in the craft.
How a job is performed determines that art, the style and the craftsmanship.

Supertec engines have the craftsmanship that reflex Henry's side of the debate.

[snowman]

Yeh, but I bet they break more than they should.

Knowing what your doing does make a difference.

My engines do not break, even if moderately abused. Others just make excuses. Craftsmanship is a given, but knowledge is key. I measure and verify 100% of every single parameter of every component, and the entire assembly. I use what is considered the BEST, not by hearsay, by by real engineers in the field. I verify what they say, I double check their data, I call and talk to every competitor to verify that what I have chosen is the best available. I analyze the data given to me. Does it really make sense, does it check out with what the manufacturer states. I do not go by what others say, but by my own analysis. So far I have not been wrong. If you want a Porsche engine that will turn over 8500RPM and not break, talk to me. That’s turn 8500RPM all day long, not just in spurts. I do not make engines for sale, so I do not have anything to gain. I will soon have the ability to present 100% dyno testing, at the crank, results of the engines. I will share all this info, no cost. TO date I have had to live with rear wheel dyno testing. Not bad, but subject to some interpretation’s If it isn’t dynoed, it isn’t real.
.

[Henry Schmidt]

Craftsmanship is never a given !!

I'll bite! I'm willing to learn, show me.
Please post the engine specs and pictures of the 911 engine you built that turns 8500 RPM all day.
This is after all a 911 engine rebuilding forum and yet you don't really seem to understand specific 911 engine characteristics.

I have noticed that you refuse to answer even the simplest request.
Which machinist believes as you do about the 20 gram issue as it pertains to Porsche rods?
Let's see that engineering degree?
If you've ever rebuilt a 911 engine, let's see it, or at least tell us about it.
If Carrillo rods are used in FI, which team?
If you use a bolt welded to a wrist pin, how did it effect the hardening of the pin?
If you weld a bolt to a wrist pin, do you have to reuse it when new pistons are installed?
How many Nikasil cylinders have you honed with a flex hone and what did the rings look like after 20K miles?

I can back up what I say with experience.

Those who know build, those who want-a-be bloviate.

Bloviate:To speak or discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner.

[Jeff Alton]

Way to stay on topic!

Cheers

[snowman]

You weld a nut or bolt to a wrist pin by finding a nut or bolt the just fits inside the hole, a light press fit. The nut or bolt is inside the wrist pin, not on the end of it. Then using a TIG welder with a very fine point you weld the nut in several places, at the tips of the hex, to the wrist pin. Just enough so it can't get loose. The heat is isolated to tiny spots on the very end of the wrist pin. Since the pin still fits and slides freely all the way thru the piston and rod, its pretty safe to assume no damage was done to it. 95% of the pin never gets much more than warm. I picked up the pin by the other end with my bare hand, didn't get burned. So the heat treat is not affected in any way that would cause a problem. New pistons come with wrist pins so a unique pin is not a problem. The purpose was to match a single very light piston plus wrist pin to the rest of the piston + WPs that were all heavy. IE take 10 grams ea off 7 pistons (or out of the inside of the wrist pins) or add 10 grams to one piston by putting the weight inside the wrist pin.

I have a 911 engine I recently finished in my garage, I even have some pictures of it apart, somewhere. If I come across them I will post them. This particular engine I had metal improvement company shotpeen the crank, the rods, rockers, head bolts. I had also micropolished the crank. I balanced the crank and rods, pistons, and flywheel, pressure plate, clutch all to less than one gram (the scale is digital so its automatically +/- last digit, 0.5 gram). I know I have posted pictures of the scale and crank balancing equipment before. I also rehoned the cylinders (steel ones) with the Sunnen hone. I machined the case and put timeserts in everywhere. To clarify I DID 100% of this work (except the shot peening) myself, no outside machine shop did it for me.

So you watch ORilley too. Thats a plus.

I have not refused to answer, but why should I?

[sww914]

Snow man, I'm curious, how many 911 engines have you built?
Thanks.

[snowman]

Only 5 911 engines, but all race engines. Overall I have build about 35 engines, of all several types, again all out race engines. I have only built about an additional 15 "stock" rebuilds, mostly when I was in my teens and early twenties and couldn't afford race parts. A race engine is an engine that you build and rebuild 15 or 20 times each because you have to to check all the tolerances and interference problems. So about 35,000, hours devoted to race engines, plus another 20,000 hours learning about race enbines.

Ask Henry how many "real" all out race engines he has built. He has probably built a zillion regular Porsche engines, but they are not all out no bucks spared race engines that take a 1000 hours to build each and bo ko bucks. Stock engines are doing what the manual tells you to do, plus a little extra hands on learning, Not really very educational in terms of racing.Its interesting that an all out Porsche race engine has almost no Porsche parts in it and the ones that it does have are heavily modified. Same for Chevy, a Chevy race engine has almost no chevy parts in it, maybe a highly modified Bowtie block and that’s it. For example in both engines, custom rods, custom pistons, modified crank and journals, even to the point of stroke, journal size, ring size, tension, rods, valves, valve springs, retainers, rockers, porting, oiling, and on and on. An all out race engine is an year long project, and you can't count the dollars. The 8500 rpm engine I referred to is the best normal mortals like me can do, the next 500 rpm is in the realm of the guys with pointed hats and even more dollars than you can count. But that’s the realm of the big time racers with a staff of 10 to 20 people, several engineers. My reading of Henry is that he makes 7500rpm engines for weekend racers using nearly stock parts. These engines are about 5 times cheaper than an 8500 rpm engine and god knows how much cheaper than a 9000 rpm engine. The F1 guys are an order of magnitude over this level. If BMW says they can't afford it, and they have in the past, its a LOT of money.

TO clarify I suspect that Henrys "race" engines cost about $25k to $30K ea. For a real race engine your looking at 1000 plus hours at about $85 per hour, plus $15k (wholesale) in parts. That’s about $125K in round numbers. Disagree with this, Henry??? I hope not cause thats what the racers state they are spending (clearly not weekend racers). How many $100 K engines have you done?

[Henry Schmidt]

I don't know how to answer snowmans question without bragging or perpetuating a pissing contest.
So I'll honor Waynes' request and pass.

Cheers

[Porsche_monkey]

55,000 hours rebuilding engines? That's 27 years full time. hmmm.

[snowman]

Thats correct but over a 40 year period, but I also just received Waynes request, so end of thread.