964 3.6 Engine Top End

[speedkillz]

What a great post..Thanks.

[silverc4s]

This thread should be memorialized as a Tech Note. perhaps axl911 and one of our web guru's could make that possible??

Many of us will need to do this work somewhere down the road, and I can hardly imagine a more useful reference than axl911's many detailed posts & photos.

Thanks again, sir!!

[Infrared Camera]

stevepaa

What is the phone number for Supertech and how much do those rings cost? thanks

Henry at Supertec is great. Give him a call at
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
445 Golden Road
Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Phone (760) 728-3062
Fax (760) 728-3063
email:supertec1@earthlink.net

www.supertecperformance.com

He has my car now. You can see it in my thread at
1991 911 Turbo 3.3

[KobaltBlau]

First of all, this is a totally awesome thread. Thanks axl!

Originally posted by axl911
When installing the rocker and rocker shaft, always install the 5mm bolt facing the flywheen end so you can put a torque wrench on it. Don't ever tighten it from the 8mm end or you will strip the 8mm nut.

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
The factory put the shaft bolts in so they could be removed without removing the engine tin. As you point out, you can't torque them through the rocker shaft holes with the bolts in the factory position. Realistically though, how often are you going to need to remove a rocker shaft with the motor in the car?
-Chris

You can torque the rocker shaft bolts in the factory recommended location, you just have to have a 1/4" torque wrench and a shortened socket. Just last weekend I made a socket using a normal (female) 5mm socket and a little slice of allen wrench. A "stock" 1/4" drive hex socket might be short enough too. Thanks to pelican Grady Clay for the shortened socket tip.

As to needing to remove a rocker shaft with the motor in the car, I needed to because I had a broken valve spring. I would have been pissed if the 5mm was facing the chain housing

[chancecasey]

(thru bolts, cam shaft at the power steering pump, and at the front main seal)

That is kind of a bummer because I am confident I am leaking in those same places, among others, as I make progress tearing down my 3.6. My front main is very bad because there is a TON of oil all over the flywheel, clutch, and inside of the bell housing around them.

You took such care with the thru bolt O-rings, that is really a shocker.

Wondering if you had any epiphanies since then that might explain the remaining leaks. A drop a week would be fantastic, relatively speaking, but still, when you go to all this trouble, it's kind of a bummer.

[WilliamReinecke]

Can the rockers, cam, and heads be removed as a single unit? I am trying to get to a broken head stud and I don't want to take the entire head apart as I don't need a complete top end rebuild at the moment. It seems to me that it would be much easier if I could take all three off in one piece...

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by WilliamReinecke
Can the rockers, cam, and heads be removed as a single unit? I am trying to get to a broken head stud and I don't want to take the entire head apart as I don't need a complete top end rebuild at the moment. It seems to me that it would be much easier if I could take all three off in one piece...

Yes, you can take them all as a unit. Most people do it that way actually.
-Chris

[WilliamReinecke]

Just so I am clear, I would need to remove the intake, cam sprocket, and exhaust from the offending side and then loosen the head bolts and it should just lift off??

If I mark the sprocket and the chain, will I be able to put the head back on without re-timing the cam?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by WilliamReinecke
Just so I am clear, I would need to remove the intake, cam sprocket, and exhaust from the offending side and then loosen the head bolts and it should just lift off??

If I mark the sprocket and the chain, will I be able to put the head back on without re-timing the cam?

You will need to remove the chainbox. On the earlier motors, getting the chainbox off with the cam in place is a bit of chinese puzzle. You will absolutely need to retime the cams.

The factory manual states that if you are just removing the heads that a special tool should be used to keep the cylinder O-rings from being damaged. (The special tool uses the knock sensor bridge to hold the cylinders down. ) If you haven't already, I would slide each cylinder out a little, smear some Threebond 1211 around cylinder base O-ring and then slide it back in.
-Chris

[tjn]

axl, its all been said but thanks again, you make it look almost as easy as the "horsepower channel "we get on saturday/sunday mornings here in derby city! keep up the good work, watch your knuckles and i'm jealous! thanks, vk

[axl911]

May 2006 update.

Well, it's been 9000 miles since the rebuild. Car is running really well, and have plenty of power. I have begin addressing some of the oil leaks. It seemed the majority of it comes from the loose clamp on the oil breather tube and the oil pressure sender seal.

See thread: What sealant to use for oil pressure sender?

Tightened the clamp and replaced the pressure sender seal. The old (replaced it during my rebuild) seal was a red seal which seemed loose and ill fitting. I replaced it with a green Viton seal from the dealer, and the leak seemed to have stopped.

There are still couple of small leaks. They are from the RMS (which leaked before), oil line connection to the filter, and the power steering seal. The leaks are very small, more like weeps. My engine bottom is mostly dry. I'll address these when I have more time.

Oil consumption seems to be about 1 quart 4-5K miles. I don't even have to add oil between my 5K oil change.

---
anthony

[scca_ita]

Originally posted by axl911
May 2006 update.

Well, it's been 9000 miles since the rebuild. Car is running really well, and have plenty of power. I have begin addressing some of the oil leaks. It seemed the majority of it comes from the loose clamp on the oil breather tube and the oil pressure sender seal.

See thread: What sealant to use for oil pressure sender?

Tightened the clamp and replaced the pressure sender seal. The old (replaced it during my rebuild) seal was a red seal which seemed loose and ill fitting. I replaced it with a green Viton seal from the dealer, and the leak seemed to have stopped.

There are still couple of small leaks. They are from the RMS (which leaked before), oil line connection to the filter, and the power steering seal. The leaks are very small, more like weeps. My engine bottom is mostly dry. I'll address these when I have more time.

Oil consumption seems to be about 1 quart 4-5K miles. I don't even have to add oil between my 5K oil change.

---
anthony

Now that you are done. Would you be interested in selling the "Special Tools" that were used in the rebuild?

[axl911]

I still have the cam tool, clutch alighment tool, 6 metal head gasket rings, etc.

[chancecasey]

I noticed in your picture your power steering pump seal appears to be installed backwards.

I'm no expert of course, but the original one in mine was the opposite of what yours is in the picture, so that's how I have put mine on.

Also, if you take a lesson from the flywheel or main seal, you can visualize that, as the shaft turns, the directional ribs on the inside of the seal want to "brush" the oil back into the case.

Looking at the way I installed my power steering pump seal, that should also be the case. That is of course assuming that, looking at the rear of the engine the cam turns counter-clockwise. As it is, yours will slowly brush oil out instead of in, but if it's no big leak I wouldn't sweat it.

Or did I miss something totally obvious here?

P.S. - Sorry I wish I had a picture but my &^%$$ 3 year old digital camera just took a crap

[axl911]

chancecasey,

Good catch...yeah, that seal was put on backward when i took the pic. I know the orientation of the seal and installed properly when I put it back in. I put a bit of sealant on when i installed it. The leak is very minimal. It just coats a bit of the bottom of the housing.

I am kind of anal about my car, so I want to clean up every possible leak.

[chancecasey]

I heard that, man. All this work, (I did the bottom end as well), I expect some satisfaction. I used a little curil T to set that seal in. I also used some threebond 1211 around the black o-ring - but I was having a ***** of a time getting it in, so I wiped it off and put a little grease around it instead.

Handy tip for other people doing this - if you don't have the proper "seal tool", or a large enough socket, you can use the cap of standard WD-40 can to push into the center of the inner seal to spread it out enough so the cam shaft will slide through. It's still a tricky little operation, and it helps to have an extra set of hands to hold that can in place while you shimmy/coax the housing on.

I was really suprised to find that the cam housing/cam hole gasket in the rebuild kit was too small for the ps housing to cam housing junction - and there wasn't another gasket for it. Was there supposed to be a gasket between the ps housing and cam housing??? Seems weird, but I assumed there wasn't so I put a little Curil-T on that surface as well.

[CBRacerX]

Getting close to starting the reassembly of my 964/3.8 and this was a big help, thanks!

[axl911]

Update.

It is 12.5K miles since the rebuild. The engine continues to run great. The oil leaks are virtually all stopped except some weeping aroung the main seal, but there is no drops on the floor.

I decided to dyno the car and got 218 hp and 208 ft-lb at the wheel. That translates to 256hp and 245 ft-lb at the flywhee. That is more than stock spec even though my engine is completely stock!!! The dyno guy said i can easily get another 10-15hp at the wheel with some tuning.

Today I also decided to look for another project (still a porsche) and will be putting the car up for sale.

So if you want a well taken care of car, email me at anthonymailbox@yahoo.com

---
anthony

[dick911]

Hello Axl911,

I've just read your thread: Great story, good pictures !

Just one question left:
What was the mileage on this car before you started the rebuild ?

Thanks,

Dick911

[axl911]

Dick911,

The car has 95K miles before I started the rebuild. I ran fine, but just smokes on idle and consumer 1 quart per 400-500 miles.