Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
3.3 turbo

i have a bad knocking noise. what should i do? is it worth rebuilding? how hard of a job is it?
Old 09-17-2005, 08:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Macquarie Australia
Posts: 509
I think that a bit of analysis is required before an answer can be formed. There are a lot of reasons for knocking noises and lots of reasons to do top end or full rebuilds.

Try and be a bit more specific about the problem... like the age and milage of the engine, when the noise is present what it sounds like and where you think it is from.

PS. Welcome to the board, try and post a photo of you car.
__________________
2008 BMW 320i
2006 Mercedes ML320
2004 Mercedes ML270 cdi
1998 Porsche Boxter
1988 Porsche 930 Targa (sold)
Old 09-18-2005, 04:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
the sound is very loud at idle it sounds like the sound is coming from a little right of center. no idea of the milage but it came out of an 1989 930. it sounds like a valve tick but it is very very loud.
__________________
Love cars lucky i got an early start
1989 911turbo project
1928 rolls royce
Old 09-18-2005, 07:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Try not, Do or Do not
 
Henry Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Posts: 6,128
Garage
It would be helpful to have more information but I'll give it a try. 930 have week rod bolts. It is not uncommon for the rod bolts to stretch and cause a rod bearing to fail. The reason you hear the noise slightly off certer is because the loose rod makes most of it's noise on TDC which in your case is 37.2 mm off center. With a bad rod bearing your piston may be hitting the head.
That said, a simpler explanation of the noise might be a broken valve spring or if the engine has been apart it is possible that a rocker shaft has shifted position causing valve train noise.
There is also a possibility that you have burned a piston and what you hear is a piston slapping around in the cylinder.
All of these scenarios are repairable and require varying amounts of expertise and moneys to remedy.
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net

Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 09-19-2005 at 07:50 AM..
Old 09-18-2005, 08:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Macquarie Australia
Posts: 509
A good place to start would be a compression and leak down test. Also if you are considering doing any of the work yourself then a must have book will be "How to rebuild and modify your Porsche 911 Engine" by Wayne Dempsy . If you are considering having an expert do the job then by all reports you can't do better than Henry Schmidt.

Henry, I had one of the problems you described my rocker shaft had shifted position causing valve train noise. It was simple to fix but potentially devastating if let go unchecked.
__________________
2008 BMW 320i
2006 Mercedes ML320
2004 Mercedes ML270 cdi
1998 Porsche Boxter
1988 Porsche 930 Targa (sold)

Last edited by rotorhead; 09-18-2005 at 02:56 PM..
Old 09-18-2005, 02:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
is there any way to find out which problem it may be without taking the engine apart? also all the problems mentioned do they require the engine being pulled? i have a feeling its the rod bolt because the car the car runs fine and starts fine it just has that terrible noise.
Old 09-19-2005, 04:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
rotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Macquarie Australia
Posts: 509
Do you have much experience in mechanical repairs? If not it would probably be a good idea to have an experienced mechanic have a look at it, just to determine the most likely cause of the noise. It may be money well spent.

The possible causes that Henry mentioned are not an exhaustive list. All the causes he mentioned require engine to be removed to repair. Two require a complete rebuild and two can can be done as a top end rebuild/repair.

A good starting point would be leakdown and compression test, possibly borescoping the cylinders and inspecting the rockers.

Any real work on the 930 engine requires the removal of the engine from the vehicle, it is not too hard to do.

You mentioned that the engine 'came out of a 1989 930' what is it in now?

All Porsche engines are worth rebuilding, if you are patient you can do it youself and this one will cost over $5000 to do.

have a look at this thread for ideas and also this thread



Steve
__________________
2008 BMW 320i
2006 Mercedes ML320
2004 Mercedes ML270 cdi
1998 Porsche Boxter
1988 Porsche 930 Targa (sold)
Old 09-19-2005, 05:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
chevy small blocks and also have built some decent racing snowmobile and mercury outboard v6's. do you think this is enough experience. i also have a good selection of tools. how long would it take to rebuild? the engine is in a 93 cabroilet.
__________________
Love cars lucky i got an early start
1989 911turbo project
1928 rolls royce
Old 09-19-2005, 05:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
the book that this website sells will that have enough info about the turbo motors. is there any other books you would recomend. is $5K a little high motor mieser sells a rebuild kit for 700. they seem pretty respectable. if it is just a rod bearing can i just do a bottom overhaul. i really do not want to mess with the heads. thats the main part i am worried about.
__________________
Love cars lucky i got an early start
1989 911turbo project
1928 rolls royce
Old 09-19-2005, 05:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 810
Do a search on this message board for Motor Meister and you will quickly change your mind about them being "pretty respectable". Quite the opposite.

Brian
__________________
Brian Keith Smith
Competition Custom Paint
1983 930
My Track Videos
TEC3 EFI Conversion on 1983 930
Old 09-19-2005, 06:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Macquarie Australia
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally posted by hillelson1
chevy small blocks and also have built some decent racing snowmobile and mercury outboard v6's. do you think this is enough experience.
Yes you have the experience to do the job, I am glad to hear it.

The search button is your friend when it comes to the topic of Motor Meister (MM). Please use it.

My experience with rebuild kits is that you pay for parts you don't need and don't get parts you do. There is a program called PET that porsche uses, it is great for generating a list of parts for a job.

The book I refered to above is written by Wayne who runs Pelican Parts, his business host this website. The book is available from Amazon and is an authorative reference for the sort of thing we are discussing. Try and use the PM feature to contact me and I'll send you lots of info to read.

Depending on your work schedule a rebuild could take from two weeks to twelve mopnths

I understand that you are gathering information about what you may be potentially facing. However it is difficult to answer your questions without much information on the problem or the engine.

Others might correct me here but a rod bearing failure will necessitate an engine rebuild.
__________________
2008 BMW 320i
2006 Mercedes ML320
2004 Mercedes ML270 cdi
1998 Porsche Boxter
1988 Porsche 930 Targa (sold)
Old 09-19-2005, 06:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Try not, Do or Do not
 
Henry Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Posts: 6,128
Garage
Pull the drain plug and look for gold.
If you see gold, you'll be spending gold.
What I mean by that is, if you see bearing material in the oil or on the drain plug, you will be in line for an overhaul. Even as a DIY project at that point $5000 is not enough to repair it properly.
Good luck.
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net

Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 09-19-2005 at 07:45 AM..
Old 09-19-2005, 07:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
could someone send me a link to why miester motors are not very good for parts. there web site seems good and the rebuild kit for the 3.3turbo seems like is will include verything i need.
__________________
Love cars lucky i got an early start
1989 911turbo project
1928 rolls royce
Old 09-19-2005, 12:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston (Clearlake), TX
Posts: 9,049
Garage
Why risk becoming another MM statistic? They have one of the best web sites out there, they also have one of the worst reputations.
__________________
2014 Cayman S
2011 Cayenne Turbo
1979 930 (475 rwhp at 0.95 bar)
Old 09-19-2005, 01:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Macquarie Australia
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally posted by hillelson1
. it sounds like a valve tick but it is very very loud.
It would be worth removing your valve covers and inspecting whether your rocker shafts have shifted. It is the cheapest and easiest problem decribed to fix.

Here is a photo of some rocker shafts that had shifted, it was making a loud clacking noise like a bad valve tick. (Also on the right side of the engine)

__________________
2008 BMW 320i
2006 Mercedes ML320
2004 Mercedes ML270 cdi
1998 Porsche Boxter
1988 Porsche 930 Targa (sold)
Old 09-19-2005, 02:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,861
Spend the money and do it right the first time. If it looks like too good to be true, it probably is. If you're uncomfortable to do it yourself, take it to a pro like Henry or someone else recommended in your area. Use this forum as a resource and have members help you find someone in your area. It's also possible to do it yourself- you might want to invest in a few books- money always well spent. Then you can make an informed decision.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 09-19-2005, 03:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hillelson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ny
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to hillelson1
all this info is so useful thanks a bunch. now i can pull the valve covers while the engine is still in right? if so can i fix the problem while the engine is still in the car? also what would cause the rocker arms to shift in the first place? i have a few pieces of metel in my drain plug nothing to serious if i take a pic and put it on the forum could you guys give me some more incite on what my be wrong with my engine? thanks again guys
__________________
Love cars lucky i got an early start
1989 911turbo project
1928 rolls royce
Old 09-19-2005, 04:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Port Macquarie Australia
Posts: 509
Yes you can pull the vlave covers and fix shifted rocker shafts in the car. But mind you it may not be the problem.

The rocker shafts generally drift when they have been re-installed, they need to be torqued properly (Factory torque settings are not enough when reinstalling used shafts) On engines with high spring tension loads there is a greater tendancy for rocker shafts to drift.

A picture is worth a thousand words
__________________
2008 BMW 320i
2006 Mercedes ML320
2004 Mercedes ML270 cdi
1998 Porsche Boxter
1988 Porsche 930 Targa (sold)
Old 09-19-2005, 06:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 661
I don't mean to worry you any further, but I'd be very cautious about driving the car or running the engine at all until you know what's wrong. If you have a rod bearing problem, it could cause serious destruction at any moment (like a connecting rod thrown through the engine case). Until and unless you can establish that the sound is something innocuous (and from the sound of it, that's not terribly likely), I'd leave the key off. Even a mechanic with basic Porsche knowledge (or a local Pelican hobbyist in your area with mechanical experience) can help you. Please, be careful with that thing. This is when the most expensive mistakes are made...
Old 09-19-2005, 06:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Infrared Camera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 49
3.3 Turbo C2

I have a 1991 3.3 Turbo. I have an internal engine problem as well and it looks like a rebuild is in order for me. I called the guys at motor masher and I would definately not recomend them to you.

For one thing they are prejudiced against our little turbo pals. They told me on two seperate occasions that they want nothing to do with Turbo Porsches because they are not reliable. First of all I think many people on this forum and in the Porsche community would not like that comment. Second, is that really a good or real reason for not working on Turbos? I mean if you quote someone a Turbo rebuild and are up front with them on the expected mileage (according to them) that the rebuild should last then were is the problem.

They do have a neat service idea that lets you pull the motor and put it on a pallate to send it to them. But none of that even matters because they wont work on our motors. If they themselves wont rebuild Turbo's how can you trust any rebuild kit that they sell you?

I am not affiliated with any Porsche repair facility or parts dealer. I am just another guy with the same problem as you sharing what little I have learned so far.

I have not done a motor with my own hands since I worked in a garage just after high school (18 years now!) and that was standard 350 chevy straight line drag stuff. I have never torn open a Porsche engine and frankly I don't have the time to get into it now. I found a guy named Henry at Supertec and he seems to be pretty sharp. He is well recomended on this site and has posted replies to your post already. I have not had any work done by him yet but I am sending my car off to him TODAY (Horray) for a motor re-build so that should indicate a certain level of trust. He is in Southern California.

You can see my Saga (with pictures) here
C2 3.3 Turbo Saga The Black B@astard

Good luck.......Go Fast!
Old 09-21-2005, 12:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:27 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.