Rebuilding a 962 motor

[helidoc]

Originally posted by Speedster94
hallo
I would buy any bolt , what is torqued with more than 30 NM , new and use the original fastener Liquid .
For sure the Flywheelbolts and use Loctite as the Factory requires .
This is not your Grandfathers Oldsmobile Engine .
harald

Does that include the flywheel bolts?

[BURN-BROS]

Doc, Harlald specifically mentions flywheels bolts in the quote. I would follow his recommendation just based on "insurance" for all the expensive and rare goodies that get bolted together. Hate to see you have to repair a crank and/or source a bell housing if the fastners decided to go.

[helidoc]

Originally posted by Carrera3.5L
Believe me, it is nowhere near as glamorous as it may appear but it was fun for a few years when you're young, single and stupid.

Hey Helidoc, you had all day yesterday, is the motor completely stripped down?

Ralph

LOL...Nope. I spent more hours than I care to say yesterday cleaning up parts and putting them into storage containers. One of the tricks one of my helicopter mechanic friends taught me was to clean everything off with mineral spirits. You hook a can of mineral spirits up to one of those air siphoning gun you can get at a place like Harbor Freight and blow everything off. It cleans real well and evaporates fairly quickly without leaving a residue or harming components. My problem was that I thought that since my garage floor needed cleaning (both from this project and a Bobcat tractor I had serviced a couple of weeks before) I would go ahead and do it in the garage (with the doors open and a fan blowing a large volume of air) and let the spirits drip down onto it and the oil spots. Unfortunately, 3 gallons was a bit more than I bargained for. The weather is cooling down so it didn't evaporate as quickly as when I used it on the helicopter in the summer and I had to use about 1/3 garbage can of saw dust that I had in my wood shop to soak it up. Besides the concern for my health with the fumes, my wife didn't want me in the house last evening until I removed my outer clothes. Atleast I am far enough out in the country that I didn't have to worry about the neighbors. So, in the future, I am going to have to do things differently. Maybe I'll be more proactive with laying cardboard down before taking things apart and using perhaps Brulin's solution (a nonvolitle cleaning solution used in the aircraft and space industry) and pressure washer. Therefore, and as a legal disclaimer, I am not now recommending this technique. Maybe someone else out there has some better suggestions.

So anyway, now that I have a clean shop I have set up a table and working area and will probably work on the motor this evening. I think I will first remove the altenator and engine mount, which does mount to the tub with four stubs on the fire wall. I will next remove the wiring harness and plenums to give me better visualization. Since the motor was working fine in the past I will probably leave as much of the intake and injector system intact as possible and just clean it up a little more.

One concern I have is taking off the cam holder and heads since there is apparently no chain. I may need to get some advise on this as to whether I need to mark some how where the gears and things line up, ect. I will get a better idea after the valve covers come off.

[ANTONIO]

Hey Helidoc, Fluidcontrol.com is your best bet for Wiggins clamps issues,I use them in all my Hi-Per turbo conversions.,cheers,Antonio.

[ANTONIO]

Sorry, Fluidcontrol.net, is the correct address.,cheers,Antonio.

[Henry Schmidt]

We always replace flywheel bolts based on years of watching them fail.
Cheap insurance.

Wiggins o-rings: We stock some sizes but not all. Let me know what sizes you need and I'll check stock.

[rcwaldo]

While on the subject of Wiggins, Viton O-rings are a great choice for this application.

[paulweir]

I have been tied up most of the past week machining special Porsche engine tooling.

So far things seem to have gone pretty smoothly, good job helidoc! And thanks for all the photos, I am always looking to download photos of original Porsche factory racing engines and parts for my Porsche engine photo collection.

[helidoc]

I only had about an hour and a half to work on the car today. It is just as well as the shop needed to air out. I still got to play back yard mechanic though working on one of my tractors when some hydrolic lines broke and sprayed all over me. Not my weekend for fluids.

Well now from low tech to higher tech. Todays efforts were directed toward removing the altenator which has an interesting off center nut which allows one to fine tune the pully alignment. I don't know if it is unique to this car or not. The motor mount was removed and it also has some interesting allen head type fasteners. Pictures of both to follow. This then left the engine as in the following picture. Does anyone know which way to loosen the pully bolt, clockwise or counter clockwise?
The rest of the time I spent labling and removing the wiring harness. I had to release the vacume tubes from the plenums and after disconnecting the injectors and various sensors I pulled the spark plug caps. With removal of just 4 10 mm nuts I was able to remove the plate with the 3 coils intact with the plug wires and remaining wire harness. That was about all I did today except remove one of the water tubes in front. Does anyone know a simple way to test these coils?
Finally one last technical photo that shows how the water cooling works on the final evolution Group C motors....note the tube from the the water pump to the lower cylinder head and the upper water manifold to the cylinder wall (water enters on the front side of the motor or back side if this were a regular 911 engine).

[adomakin]

funny place for a turbo!

[ANTONIO]

Pulley loosens CCW.,cheers,Antonio.

[helidoc]

Originally posted by ANTONIO
Pulley loosens CCW.,cheers,Antonio.

Thanks Antonio.

[sammyg2]

On a centrifugal pump like that one the liquid being pumped always enters in the middle or eye of the impeller and exits out the side (or bottom in the picture).
That is the extent of what I know about your engine

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by helidoc
One concern I have is taking off the cam holder and heads since there is apparently no chain. I may need to get some advise on this as to whether I need to mark some how where the gears and things line up, ect. I will get a better idea after the valve covers come off.

You shouldn't need to mark the gears when you pull them off. You will have to use your dial indicator anyway to reset the cam timing when you reassemble the motor. I'm assuming that the motor is being completely torn down and gone through?

What you will need to do is be careful not to disorient the various shims between the gears as these determine the "play". They will also be varying thickness' so be careful not to mix them up while you are cleaning the parts. You should be able to pull the "chain box" housings as a unit.

With respect to the pulley, as stated before by Antonio the old adage "lefty-loosey righty-tighty" applies as well. The bolt I'm sure was loctited by Andial and just may be tough to break loose.

I'm meeting up with Eric Bloss this afternoon, I'll see if I can get you more info regarding the 4 digit numbers for fuel and oil that get programmed into the ECU.

Ralph

[JeremyD]

It is amazing to see how similiar it is to the regular flat six

[helidoc]

Ralph, thanks for the info.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by JeremyD
It is amazing to see how similiar it is to the regular flat six

Jeremy,

There are quite a few components on this motor that are also used on your 3.2L based motor. None of the typical components obviously (pistons, crank, rods, oil pump, etc.) but some bearings, gaskets, seals, o-rings, hardware, etc are the same.

Ralph

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by helidoc
Ralph, thanks for the info.

Helidoc,

I had a nice chat with Eric this afternoon and he gave me some info that hopefully will be of use to you.

The 4-digit numbers, as I told you previously, are offset numbers derived from the Bosch sensors. The ECU treats the two cylinder banks almost like separate engines, hence one set of numbers for the "master" 1-2-3 side and another for the "slave" 4-5-6. The oil pressure numbers are of course combined for both banks.

The numbers that are printed on the paper taped to the plenum should also be on the Bosch sensors themselves. This handy guide is provided for you because the sensors are out of sight on the motor when it is in the car so one would not easily find them, let alone read them.

These numbers, when programmed to the ECU, provide you with accurate readings for fuel and oil pressure, which should be up to 5 bar for fuel and 7 bar for oil.

While I didn't mention your water-cooling concerns, Eric does show some concern regarding how long the car has been sitting and what kind of condition the fuel and electric systems may be in. He hopes that you have been using a fuel stabilizer and the computer batteries can also be problematic and need to be recharged otherwise "all hell can break loose" as he put it.

While it seems that you are well on your way to rebuilding the motor (and thanks again for sharing with all of us and helping me relive some good times), he would be happy to do it for you if you get yourself into trouble. I didn't tell him that you already had the motor out of the car, he just got done with a 917-30 rebuild where the car was shipped to him at PMNA, he rebuilt the motor and arranged for a shakedown at Willow Springs where the owner could run it around and make sure everything was up to par with him on hand. The same arrangements could be made for you and you could just head back north from there. I'm sure a whole slew of local Pelicanites following this thread would love to show up unannounced and cheer you on!

When you are ready to start the motor, Eric told me that the two of us can do a weekend road trip to your house when you are ready to fire it up. He has a whole checklist of things to do before and after the motor is running. If your not familiar with these procedures, it might not be a bad idea. All you have to do is house us and feed us (and we're both skinny guys).

He also has all of the engine files for 962/962C motors, including yours. The contents really won't tell you all that much, other than what components were replaced when, but he'll take a look and see if anything pops out in your engine's file.

Getting back to the camshafts, I took a look at my 1990 962C engine parts book and there are two "official" cam sets listed, but I know there are other profiles out there, although possibly only in prototype form. Anyway, here is what is listed in the book:

Inlet Cams: 9.3mm lift and either 276° or 288° duration
Exhaust Cams: 9.3mm lift and either 276° or 288° duration

It will be interesting (for me at least) to find out to what spec your motor was built. 3.0L or 3.2L and what cams are inside among other facets. If you need part number help, don't hesitate to ask. I can either provide them for you or I'll send you up the book if you promise to return it when finished.

Ralph

P.S. - Please PM your name if you don't want everyone else to know, it will help me in the future if I need to get other info from sources.

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by helidoc
Besides the concern for my health with the fumes, my wife didn't want me in the house last evening until I removed my outer clothes.

Gee, that sounds hauntingly familiar.

-Wayne

[ischmitz]

helidoc,

using the dishwasher for parts cleaning and the oven for power-coating baking are more ways straight into the dog-house