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Conservative Libertarian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
You really need a very s-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-o-w curing bonding agent if it takes you 50 hours to seal the case.
Sarcasm aside: The "50 hours" is the time spent when you discover the case leaks from using an experimental technique.
Then make it 100 hours when upon reflection you decide your experiment was only slightly flawed, do the same thing and reseal it for a third time. If you think I'm kidding, you are not following this forum very closely.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:09 AM
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Of course Jim, I was only kidding. I think 50 hours of meticulous prepping and assembly is actually pretty close to spot on for a 911 engine. Actually, the case thru-bolts I found the most annoying with those totally worthless blue o-rings. Using the green viton o-rings was a much better solution. Has anyone ever tried torquing everything down without the o-rings and once everything has cured, redo the thru-bolts one at a time with the viton o-rings?
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:24 AM
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Case sealing suggestions : This is how we build all of our engines.

Outer case halves perimeter : Threebond 1104

Bearing web surfaces: Loctite 574

#8 Bearing O-Ring: Threebond 1211

Case Thru Bolts: Dow Corning 55 on Green Viton O-Rings

Flywheel Seal: dry

Front pulley Seal: dry

Intermediate Shaft Cover to Case: o-ring Dow 55, gasket style 574

Oil Breather Cover to Case: Loctite 574

Cylinders to Case: Curil T

Cam Towers to Cylinder Heads: Threebond 1104

Cam Chain Housings to Case: gaskets Loctite 574

Cam Chain Housings to Cam Towers: gasket Loctite 574

Cam Chain Housing Cover to Cam Chain Housing: Gasket Loctite574

Gaskets: Thin coat of Loctite 574

The Loctite Hysol is a perfect epoxy for sealing galley plugs and tensioner pins.
On late 3.0 & 3.2 cases it also seals the exposed oil tranfer tube in front of the cooler.

If you can't find 1104 use 1194 and Dow 55 can be replaced with 111

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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 01-21-2010 at 05:31 AM..
Old 01-20-2010, 02:03 PM
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Henry... you have the patience of a saint in my book...!!! :-)
Thx for all of your help to the Pelican community & Porsche wrenchers the world over...
Bob
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:33 PM
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Good read (all of it...)

Thanks, Henry.

Best,

Doyle
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:55 PM
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A quick question on this subject:

What are people using on intakes? Do you use a thin coat of Loctite 574 on both sides of the gaskets, on either side of the insulators? Or do you go dry? I ask this in case one needs to remove the manifold assembly at some point in the future. Mine came apart pretty easily, and I used 574 IIRC when I built it. The assembly removed from the heads easily, and the manifolds released the insulators, but some of the gaskets were stuck to the insulators pretty well. I didn't bother trying to clean them-I just ordered new from our host. Maybe I should have just used 574 on the gasket surfaces mating to metal and left the insulator sides dry?
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:38 PM
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On an engine with intake insulators, we use Three Bond 1194 between the head and insulator (no gasket) and 574 (very thin) on both sides of the top gasket.
If the intake is something that may need to be removed, we do the same except trade Curil T for the 574.
This method eliminates a gasket and seals well.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:53 PM
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Thanks Henry, I'll try the 1194 to the head and Curil T on the top gasket.
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:02 PM
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engine sealants link

I tried searching for "Ultimate engine sealant" for the list of well sorted out specific engine sealant for reassembly. I cannot seem to find the list. Does anyone have this list with the links they can send me please?

Thank you,

John
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:51 AM
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevil64 View Post
I tried searching for "Ultimate engine sealant" for the list of well sorted out specific engine sealant for reassembly. I cannot seem to find the list. Does anyone have this list with the links they can send me please?

Thank you,

John
Problem is there is no "absolute definitive list" engines have surfaces that must be sealed. Companies make products to seal such surfaces. Some have good with one brand or type, other use a different one. Which product to choose may also be effected by how experienced you are at assembly. Proper preparation is likely just as important or even more important than than what you put on to fill the imperfections. The arguement of what to use can go on forever or at least as long as there is more than one product available.
But for goodness sake, no matter what else you do, don't use silicone sealer.......
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Old 07-27-2010, 06:47 AM
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Thanks guys for bumping this. I was having a heck of a time trying to find it. This will at least give me some solid options. Anything beats all the RTV the previous mechanic put on the engine.
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:23 PM
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I used advice on this board when assembling and used the 1194 between the cam carriers and heads. For the case, however I used only 574. Curil T was used in some places as well.

I had good luck.

I split the case to replace a perfectly good (as it turned out) oil pump and after cleaning I once again used 574. The second go-around, I didn't separate the cam carriers from the heads and took them off and re-assembled as a unit.

Since I haven't yet tried, my question is this:

How do you remove 1194? I know that 574 can be a PITA, but persistence, alcohol, and elbow grease will eventually take all traces off.

Another question is:

Why the switch from 574 to 1194 for the case perimeter?
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:01 PM
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I'm no expert, but it seems to me that 574 is fine with surfaces that are absolutely perfect, such as what the factory had when they built the motors. Throw a scratch that's a few thou deep, and I think it struggles, where 1194 will fill voids better.

I won't even charge .02 for this opinion of mine, it's free.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efhughes3 View Post
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that 574 is fine with surfaces that are absolutely perfect, such as what the factory had when they built the motors. Throw a scratch that's a few thou deep, and I think it struggles, where 1194 will fill voids better.

I won't even charge .02 for this opinion of mine, it's free.
Pretty good response.
Carry on
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:52 PM
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Henry lives! Long time no hear.

Lindy
Old 07-29-2010, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lindy 911 View Post
Henry lives! Long time no hear.

Lindy
I've been lurking in to back ground and you guys have been going just fine without me.
Seems like a whole lot less tension as well.

cheers
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt View Post
I've been lurking in to back ground and you guys have been going just fine without me.
Seems like a whole lot less tension as well.

cheers

So what do you use to remove 1104 / 1194?
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2016 981 Boxster S.................| 1983 911 Turbo - (White)
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnman001 View Post
So what do you use to remove 1104 / 1194?
A stainless steel tooth brush and MEK. It also works on 574 and Permatex Aviation Formagasket.

Be very careful with MEK. Use only in well ventilated areas and use gloves.
That crap will make you sicker than you might believe.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt View Post
A stainless steel tooth brush and MEK. It also works on 574 and Permatex Aviation Formagasket.

Be very careful with MEK. Use only in well ventilated areas and use gloves.
That crap will make you sicker than you might believe.

Thanks!

Yup, I know that stuff. Methyl Ethyl Ketone also can take off uncured e-coat paint. That's where I first encountered it anyway. Great. Another chemical to subject my already dry, cracking fingers to.

I didn't always use to wear gloves, but now I wear nitrile gloves religiously.
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2016 981 Boxster S.................| 1983 911 Turbo - (White)
1974 911 3.2 - Red Car...........| 1974 914-6 3.2 - (Silver)
1974 914-6 3.2, GT -(Red).......| 1974 914 - Unit Body (TBD)
1971 914 (TBD).....................|
Old 08-04-2010, 06:32 PM
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