Coil-On-Plug for Aircooled Engines?

[safe]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

Just an FYI, the stock buru 1.8T coils have a bad history of failure, when my 3rd coil failed I'd had enough and swapped them out for Hitachi units. I can't remember the part number (3-4 years ago), but it can easily be found on the B5 forum at passatworld.com.

My passat is really my wifes (mom's taxi) and sees at least 30,000km/yr.

I know, but the R-coils appears to be better. I carry a spare if one should break down.

[safe]

I might add that I got all my coils used from the scrapyard, I have used them all summer ~5000 miles mostly to/from track and on the track.

What I have read is that they fail more frequent in turbo engines with higher than stock boost.
I think an air cooled 911 is a nice place for a c.o.p, dry and with a constant airflow.

[BoxsterGT]

Does anyone know if the Toyota Tundra coils have built-in drivers?



Is this what Pro-Technik uses?

Any photos of these installed?

Len

[cmonref]

Boxster GT,

The other thread on this subject has a description of a test that demonstrates that the 4-wire Toyota coil required 12v and ground and 5v and ground which in indicative of an internal driver. See post #97 at this URL.

using a "coil pack" ignition

[billjam]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

Does anyone know if the Toyota Tundra coils have built-in drivers?


Is this what Pro-Technik uses?
Any photos of these installed?
Len

We don't get Tundra in Aus. Anyone got a part number for Tundra coils? - they may be used in other Toyota models.

I have a set of six Toyota Kluger coils (= Highlander in US) #90919-02246, but these seem to be unique to this petrol V6 model in Aus, which is a bit inconvenient.



They are good for length and seem to have internal driver (although not really sure what that is). I figure if the coil only needs a power supply and a signal, it must have an "internal driver" - correct?
Still need six more, so other equivalent part numbers would be handy to know.

I have also been trying to get a data sheet (like the Bosch details linked in an ealier post) but Toyota aren't interested in helping with that.

Originally Posted by Brian K. Haggard

Boxster GT,

The other thread on this subject has a description of a test that demonstrates that the 4-wire Toyota coil required 12v and ground and 5v and ground which in indicative of an internal driver. See post #97 at this URL.

using a "coil pack" ignition

Brian,
You have mis-read my post I think. The Toyota coil I tested on my bench worked with 12V for coil power and 12V signal, NOT 5V. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to confirm what the correct signal voltage should be, so I just crossed my fingers and used 12V and it worked without getting fried in the process.
I "ran" one coil for a few minutes (stroking the signal wire along the file) continuously and it survived. The body of the coil warmed up a little as you might expect.

[billjam]

Anyone got a contact for Toyota (Denso) wiring connectors?



I can get the plastic plugs from Toyota (90980-11885) but they don't come with the metal terminals or wire seals like this ...

[rluciano]

MoTeC USA sells the connectors. So does Ballenger Motorsports. I'm going to use them with a MoTeC M800 on my dual-plugged 3.3SS.

[jonesb930]

Ok, I found this item today while searching for ignition coil info. It is a coil targeted for ford applications but is built like the Kawasaki coil. Should be easy to get info for its operating requirements since it replaces the oem COP on many ford and Mazda applications. Its completely redesigned and cost is from $60 each. I like this design because you can just use a tab on the bottom like the twin plug wire holder tabs to hold them in place. No need to fabricate a mount or bracket.

Main webpage: WeaponX Performance : High Performance Automotive Products
Application cross reference: http://www.weaponxperformance.com/technicalPDF/WeaponX%20Ignition%20Coil%20Interchange.pdf

[BoxsterGT]

This looks good Bill, and its half the price of a new Toyota coil.

Have you bought one to test yet?

Len

[BoxsterGT]

Is it a general rule of thumb that the 2 pin coils require seperate drivers, while the 4 pin coils have built-in drivers?

I thought the Kawasaki coils were 4 pin, same as the Toyota coils; but now I see they are 2 pin and can be triggered by an Electromotive Crank fire HPV-1(??)

Len

[safe]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

Is it a general rule of thumb that the 2 pin coils require seperate drivers, while the 4 pin coils have built-in drivers?

I thought the Kawasaki coils were 4 pin, same as the Toyota coils; but now I see they are 2 pin and can be triggered by an Electromotive Crank fire HPV-1(??)

Len

The Kawasaki coils doesn't have a driver, I think that's why it needs 88volt input (they can make the coil smaller) kind of like the Porsche CDI pumping out 400v to the coil.

[BoxsterGT]

I thought as posted previously, the Kawasaki coils work on the 12v signal from the Electromotive HPV-1??

How about the 2 pin Ford coils shown above? What voltage drives them?

Len

[78SCSLANTNOSE]

heres a pic of c o p engine from peter dawe's shop.Sweeeeettt

[Mahler9th]

Interesting thread... I will have to peruse the others to learn more. I assume it would cost >1$ to add this to an existing engine or build. What is/are the benefit(s)?

[Jeff Alton]

Looks like Jenvey throttles with the carbon intake made for Rothsport by a fellow Pelican......

Cheers

[jonesb930]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

I thought as posted previously, the Kawasaki coils work on the 12v signal from the Electromotive HPV-1??

How about the 2 pin Ford coils shown above? What voltage drives them?

Len

Reading the documentation for the Ford coil i posted previously, it looks like you would need a CDI box to properly drive it. Another option I have found is the AEM CDI and COP solution. They have a 8 channel CDI box that sells for under $500 and the coils are about $60 each. The import tuners have been using these on some high boost cars making crazy HP. On a twin plug setup you would just use 2 CDI boxes. Any aftermarket ECU could trigger the CDI. I priced this setup at around $1600 for a twin plug system. The coils also come with the necessarily connectors as well for that price. When you look at the LS1 coils and ignitors from Motec the price is comparable. And this is COP CDI.

Anyone have experience with AEM?

AEM CDI Box

AEM COP

Andrew,
I think $1600 is cheaper than the cost of a M600. Just an option...

Bill

[sjf911]

Wow, that makes for a cheap CDI wasted spark twin plug solution too. OTOH, LS-1's have built-in ignitors so they are easy to drive from any ECU and can be had for almost pennies. The D585 LS-2 coils (truck coils) are the real brutes. I have acquired 16 of those off ebay for less than $400 (most of them brand new) and they also have built in ignitors. It's CNP, not COP or CDI but it is cheaper high energy spark.

[ricardoc]

thanks for the info provided....

[turbo nut]

If someone is looking for the vw coil connecor this is the cheapest route I have found. I payed $45.00 for the harness with four connectors used what I needed and threw the rest away.

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by jonesb930

Reading the documentation for the Ford coil i posted previously, it looks like you would need a CDI box to properly drive it. Another option I have found is the AEM CDI and COP solution. They have a 8 channel CDI box that sells for under $500 and the coils are about $60 each. The import tuners have been using these on some high boost cars making crazy HP. On a twin plug setup you would just use 2 CDI boxes. Any aftermarket ECU could trigger the CDI. I priced this setup at around $1600 for a twin plug system. The coils also come with the necessarily connectors as well for that price. When you look at the LS1 coils and ignitors from Motec the price is comparable. And this is COP CDI.
Anyone have experience with AEM?
Bill

Bill- I am going the exact route you are speaking of and have some insight as to fitment for the Ford coils. I tried the normal 2 valve coils from the 4.6 mustang and I didnt feel like the boot was sliding over the spark plug 100%. Then, I tried the 4.6 cobra coils (cheaper by the way) and found that they offer plenty of length and can even be cut down to size. Throw a seal on it from one of our spark plug connectors and use normal spark plug boot hold downs to hold them in and call it done. Then, the AEM- I am ordering this unit tomarrow as I have not heard of any real issues with the AEM twin fire 8 channel. I know a few people who use them on stangs with big boost and great results. Then I am hooking this all to my Haltech platinum 2000. In the end I will have about $650 shipped into the entire COP setup. Hope this helps.

P.S- had the audi coils for a great price and returned them due to the price of the connectors...