sneak peak of new headers

[mb911]

Brian over at rarlyl8 motorsports and M&K have worked on this new product and I wanted to get some feedback. this is 1.5" primaries and the picture is of the turbo version the N/A version will be mirrored. What do you guys and gals think

[KTL]

Nice collector!

I like how the header on the oil cooler side avoids the cooler entirely. The George's/QSC/OBX headers go right underneath the cooler and sort of compromise the benefit of the cooler.

The #6 cyl. inboard stud looks like it's blocked pretty good by the piping. That one may be tough to tighten? Same goes for #2 cyl. inboard stud. But your headers look like they drop down below the engine a bit more than typical headers, so that would be helpful in gaining access to the studs.

Also looks like cyl. bank 1-3 valve cover is shrouded by the header quite a bit. Do you think a heat shield would be needed for that valve cover? I could care less about replacing valve cover gaskets a bit more often, but some people may have issue with that.

[Bill Verburg]

You've got the right idea, how long are the primaries? Can they be scaled up? Assuming those are 1 1/2" ID, 1 5/8" ID would be good for 3.6-4.0, Heat? SS?

Have you taken a look at the market? your competition? are you offering something better or unavailable elsewhere?

[mb911]

these are 321 stainless we will also offer them in 304 . we have plans for 1 5/8ths as well. pictured though is for the equal length turbo setup the N/A version will be mirrored and not both the same side so to speak. the Heat will come as a bolt on option hopefully much like the aviation world. we have closely looked at the competion and we feel we offer better collectors and the pricing will blow a good amount of folks out of the water as we have the collectors down so you don't have the burns pricing added in on these headers like others do

[kenikh]

Is there any disadvantage to sealing the exhaust tract on a turbo using flared tube ends and retainer springs over welding the system closed? Sure makes like easier for assemly/disassemly, but wonder if there would be measurable leakage under the backpressure of the turbo.

[RWebb]

how much do they weigh?

[mb911]

Originally Posted by kenikh

Is there any disadvantage to sealing the exhaust tract on a turbo using flared tube ends and retainer springs over welding the system closed? Sure makes like easier for assemly/disassemly, but wonder if there would be measurable leakage under the backpressure of the turbo.

As long as the slip fits are tight then no issues' I run a slip on my set up and it is a very tight seal so very happy with the design

[mb911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

how much do they weigh?

I will have to weight them

[MatthewBrum]

I would love to put something like this on my 80SC, I like the idae of a bolt-on heat. If you can beat the price of the SSI's and do not have to use the back dated oil lines, I would buy a set.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by MatthewBrum

I would love to put something like this on my 80SC, I like the idae of a bolt-on heat. If you can beat the price of the SSI's and do not have to use the back dated oil lines, I would buy a set.

its going to be hard to beat there price as they have been up and running for 20+ years the same product so its hard to compete and still keep them US made. though ours has a better collector and will work with stock oil lines pricing will be close though to ssi's and have the ID advantage

[JP911]

Valve cover clearance is the biggest issue that I have with George's headers. I'm not able to remove either of the lower valve covers without loosening the nuts at the heads. As far as price, the only other stainless headers I know of are sold by S-Car-Go and the price is insane. If you can hit the sub-$2K mark I think these will sell.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by JP911

Valve cover clearance is the biggest issue that I have with George's headers. I'm not able to remove either of the lower valve covers without loosening the nuts at the heads. As far as price, the only other stainless headers I know of are sold by S-Car-Go and the price is insane. If you can hit the sub-$2K mark I think these will sell.

Oh defiantly be sub 2K . Hopefully if we get enough folks interested in pre production purchase we could see them at ssi prices

[RarlyL8]

These headers were not designed to compete with SSI. SSI is an equal length long tube stock replacement heat exchanger. These are medium equal length primary performance headers.
Weight reduction, performance, ease of installation, fitment, longevity, quality and cost were the build parameters. The primaries are 17.50" each +/- 0.25" measured on centerline. Weight is less than 5 pounds each in 321 stainless.
There is 1" clearance from the lower valve cover at the closest spot.
They are designed to use the stock oil lines.
All port studs are accessible as the pipes stand off 4" from the port.
Slip joints do not leak in the turbo application so assumed also to not leak for the 911. Very close tolerance fit.
Will be available in 1.5, 1 5/8 and 1.75 inch primaries.
Heat exchangers will come later and will bolt on to retro-fit headers in the field or to allow repair/replacement if damaged.
Price point is dependent upon batch numbers. Shooting for ~$1500 for the 911 in 304 stainless.
A lot of thought went into this design. I've drawn from my own experience as an enthusiast and DIY guy dealing with crap that don't fit or did not live up to the hype. There are always compromises. Close attention was paid that quality is not one of them.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

These headers were not designed to compete with SSI. SSI is an equal length long tube stock replacement heat exchanger. These are medium equal length primary performance headers.
Weight reduction, performance, ease of installation, fitment, longevity, quality and cost were the build parameters. The primaries are 17.50" each +/- 0.25" measured on centerline. Weight is less than 5 pounds each in 321 stainless.
There is 1" clearance from the lower valve cover at the closest spot.
They are designed to use the stock oil lines.
All port studs are accessible as the pipes stand off 4" from the port.
Slip joints do not leak in the turbo application so assumed also to not leak for the 911. Very close tolerance fit.
Will be available in 1.5, 1 5/8 and 1.75 inch primaries.
Heat exchangers will come later and will bolt on to retro-fit headers in the field or to allow repair/replacement if damaged.
Price point is dependent upon batch numbers. Shooting for ~$1500 for the 911 in 304 stainless.
A lot of thought went into this design. I've drawn from my own experience as an enthusiast and DIY guy dealing with crap that don't fit or did not live up to the hype. There are always compromises. Close attention was paid that quality is not one of them.

well spelled out Brian

[lally911]

"Weight reduction, performance, ease of installation, fitment, longevity, quality and cost were the build parameters."

Excellent. I'm interested.

[KTL]

Sounds like you've identified a lot of the shortcomings or nagging details of the other offerings on the market. That's certainly a wise move. Things like oil line swaps and highly difficult fastener locations that require weird specialty wrenches are a pain sometimes.

I think another detail to consider is muffler compatibility. You guys certainly know that a large number of customers nowadays are looking for plug-n-play solutions. Therefore a muffler that mates with the headers is a must IMO.

Also, price point is ALWAYS an issue with the hardcore DIY crowd. So it begs the question, have you considered a non-stainless offering to compete with the cheaper alternatives? I know you guys are known for your stainless, but it is absolutely necessary? By compete I mean you would of course still hold a high quality standard for the basic steel units and justify your product's likely higher price on account of the improvements your headers offer over the rest of the market? I guess my point is, while the low-end headers currently on the market may lack the finer details of the headers you offer, they still provide the basic purpose of a "performance" header- better flow (arguable), lower weight, not too expensive to ditch the factory exhaust system. They've proven to stand the test of time, despite their shortcomings, some of which are rather substantial shortcomings. So I think it could be wise to try to draw some people away from the seemingly lesser, low-end products out there.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by KTL

Sounds like you've identified a lot of the shortcomings or nagging details of the other offerings on the market. That's certainly a wise move. Things like oil line swaps and highly difficult fastener locations that require weird specialty wrenches are a pain sometimes.

I think another detail to consider is muffler compatibility. You guys certainly know that a large number of customers nowadays are looking for plug-n-play solutions. Therefore a muffler that mates with the headers is a must IMO.

Also, price point is ALWAYS an issue with the hardcore DIY crowd. So it begs the question, have you considered a non-stainless offering to compete with the cheaper alternatives? I know you guys are known for your stainless, but it is absolutely necessary? By compete I mean you would of course still hold a high quality standard for the basic steel units and justify your product's likely higher price on account of the improvements your headers offer over the rest of the market? I guess my point is, while the low-end headers currently on the market may lack the finer details of the headers you offer, they still provide the basic purpose of a "performance" header- better flow (arguable), lower weight, not too expensive to ditch the factory exhaust system. They've proven to stand the test of time, despite their shortcomings, some of which are rather substantial shortcomings. So I think it could be wise to try to draw some people away from the seemingly lesser, low-end products out there.

Here is kind of what I am thinking for the muffler choices of course I am thinking to work with any factory style dual inlet including all M&K mufflers (any dual inlet) but I am also thinking about making a merge into a 2.5 inch flange to work with single inlet mufflers for the sc and carrera cars so it could keep cost down should someone want to go that route.

as to mild steel option that may develop overtime but to be honest most of the cost is labor and keep in mind all of our headers are back purged unlike any other brand I am aware of

[304065]

Hi Ben.

If I were doing headers from scratch I would have two important design criteria:

1) Ease of getting them on and off. The present designs require the use of M8 12mmm ATF copper lock nuts or barrel nuts-- I would think that some metric all-metal "jet nuts" in M8 13mm ATF would be the best approach-- I would want to be able to get these on and off with a conventional swivel socket, not some exotic 1/4" drive German thing you can only order over the Internet; and

2) Access to the oil scavenge fitting. I use a 90 degree fitting in the side of the case, it would be great to not have to remove the HE to access the fitting (if it leaks, or if you were going from a 74' type crossover line to an AN16, for example.

Great work!

[kodabear]

Nice, but what I need are reasonably priced boxster S headers that work. There is a untapped market for that. On the other hand, there are lots of reasonable 911 headers out there on the market already.

[RarlyL8]

Muffler fitment for the 911 won't be a problem as the secondary pipes will use stock flanges for fitment in the stock location.
Yes stainless is the material of choice. These headers should last as long as your car. I'm afraid that anything less than 304 won't meet my quality requirement of rust resistance in all environments. Many of these cars live near the ocean and some see snow.
Yes there are many versions of 911 header on the market. I believe our headers combine features that make them unique to the marketplace for a good price.
No plans for the Boxster, maybe Ben can tackle that one.

Here is a picture of the mirrored headers for the 911.