The Beautiful Puzzle: 1987 3.3L 930 EFI Build - Page 2

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 08:50 AM

Good point!
Thanks!

Quote:

I would advise against that since the locktite would not be guaranteed to flow out of the space between the bearing and rod before setting which could cause very bad issues since rod bearing clearance is critical, especially too little of it.

The bearings are designed to have the perfect amount of crush, so short of catastrophic mechanical failure they will be just fine being clamped inside a lightly oiled surface.

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 09:06 AM

In an effort to show our host my appreciation I've ordered my 1st Pelican Part!

Ordered the much coveted Engine Stand Adapter Ring

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 09:14 AM

I still need to cover the topics of cylinder to head sealing and head stud choices before I can dive headlong into this build.

After some homework I still have no idea what to do about sealing the heads to the cylinders, but think I've narrowed it down to 3 top choices:

APR

Supertec

Porsche Steel

All you engine gurus out there please let me know your experiences and what you'd recommend on both sealing and head studs.

Thanks,
RC

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 11:46 AM

Plastigauging the crank rod journals and each connecting rod. I've read that it's good to make sure they are in spec 0.030mm to 0.088mm, but I'm worried that the bearings may deform during the process and have a greater tendency to spin. What should I do?

Thanks,
RC

350HP930 · 11:58 AM

Don't forget to inquire about head sealing and EFI options too Rick unless you already have your mind made up about those issues already!

Fortunately the EFI options are a lot more plentiful and less costly than they were back when I started down the path you are currently on.

As long as you are careful with them the rod bearings will be able to handle more than one clamping. The strain is well within their elastic limit so they can handle a few cycles without any issues, just make sure the rod journal has a light layer of lube so they can displace to where they want to go and that they are perfectly straight and flat in the rod before you pop the cap on and torque them.

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350HP930

Don't forget to inquire about head sealing and EFI options too Rick unless you already have your mind made up about those issues already!

Fortunately the EFI options are a lot more plentiful and less costly than they were back when I started down the path you are currently on.

As long as you are careful with them the rod bearings will be able to handle more than one clamping. The strain is well within their elastic limit so they can handle a few cycles without any issues, just make sure the rod journal has a light layer of lube so they can displace to where they want to go and that they are perfectly straight and flat in the rod before you torque them.

Great! I like plastigauge

Yep, there's lots and lots of details to work out on this slippery slope, but we'll get to them all!

Thanks,
RC

MBruns · 03-21-2011, 12:34 PM

Rick, use a dial bore guage for checking your rod clear. and be sure its closer to the .088mm clear. we can fire ring your head/cyls. like the 935 style do it all the time, what size bore are you going with ? that is the biggest concern with reducing seal surface area, if its 97 or 98mm thats fine but 100mm and fire rings not much area left.
Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 12:53 PM

Mike, they are stock 3.3 930 holes that have been honed, so sounds like fire rings would work fine !
RC

Quote:

Rick, use a dial bore guage for checking your rod clear. and be sure its closer to the .088mm clear. we can fire ring your head/cyls. like the 935 style do it all the time, what size bore are you going with ? that is the biggest concern with reducing seal surface area, if its 97 or 98mm thats fine but 100mm and fire rings not much area left.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 12:57 PM

I'll break out the bore Guage tonight

Quote:

Mike, they are stock 3.3 930 holes that have been honed, so sounds like fire rings would work fine !

RC

Quote

Rick, use a dial bore guage for checking your rod clear. and be sure its closer to the .088mm clear. we can fire ring your head/cyls. like the 935 style do it all the time, what size bore are you going with ? that is the biggest concern with reducing seal surface area, if its 97 or 98mm thats fine but 100mm and fire rings not much area left.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

MBruns · 03-21-2011, 01:30 PM

It should be a 97mm bore, if you have a dial bore guage torque the rods without the bearings and measure it, on those I start at 2.284 in. on the big end housing bore then put the bearings in and see what you have for bearing clear. just be sure the crank,rods, mics. are all in the same room to get the temps the same, my engine room is like a meat locker compared to the machine shop.
Mike

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 01:44 PM

Will do and Thanks!

Quote:

It should be a 97mm bore, if you have a dial bore guage torque the rods without the bearings and measure it, on those I start at 2.284 in. on the big end housing bore then put the bearings in and see what you have for bearing clear. just be sure the crank,rods, mics. are all in the same room to get the temps the same, my engine room is like a meat locker compared to the machine shop.

Mike

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 05:21 PM

I went out to the garage to set up to measure the rod bearing clearances, but got sidetracked measuring the cylinders and checking roundness and taper. Before I could get to the conrods the mosquitos ran me back in the house. At least they gave me a t-shirt for the donation

CaptainCalf · 03-21-2011, 05:29 PM

The shop manual says if the cylinders measure within 0.08mm of new then they are good to go. I have one new one that measured 97.060mm and all the rest were 97.070 or less. They were all round and the taper from top to bottom was 0.01mm or less. I think it's safe to say the PO took real good care of this 930!

350HP930 · 03-21-2011, 06:01 PM

Nice bore gauge and pics. Sorry to hear about the skeeter attack, but we are in florida after all. Probably need to add some bug repellant to the project list as well, lol.

AlfonsoR · 03-22-2011, 06:36 PM

Nice build. Good luck.

CaptainCalf · 03-23-2011, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350HP930

Nice bore gauge and pics. Sorry to hear about the skeeter attack, but we are in florida after all. Probably need to add some bug repellant to the project list as well, lol.

got the spray!

now I have the rods torqued to 37 ft-lbs with the old bolts, but can't find my micrometer to set up my bore gauge so big end clearance checks will have to wait for now...maybe I'll measure the slugs and start matching them with cylinders

MBruns · 03-23-2011, 05:02 AM

Rick, If I understand your last post correct you can't use your old stock bolts to get a measurement, the ARP or whatever non stock bolts are torqued to a different value and will change the housing bore dimensions IF they were resized with the ARP bolts. So that said if they were resized with the stock bolts the same applies to just installing the ARP's won't work. They have to be resized with what you will be using, the ARP can be stretched several times without an issue, they want you to cycle them several times before final torque. Plus it most likely will be something your regular dialbore guage won't be sensitive enough to detect the out of round condition, the guage on a rod machine has a sweep of .010 in. total instead of .050 or .100 in.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

350HP930 · 03-23-2011, 05:10 AM

+1 on leaving the ARP hardware in the rods. They can handle the stress cycles and will create the clamping force the rods were resized for.

CaptainCalf · 03-23-2011, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBruns

Rick, If I understand your last post correct you can't use your old stock bolts to get a measurement, the ARP or whatever non stock bolts are torqued to a different value and will change the housing bore dimensions IF they were resized with the ARP bolts. So that said if they were resized with the stock bolts the same applies to just installing the ARP's won't work. They have to be resized with what you will be using, the ARP can be stretched several times without an issue, they want you to cycle them several times before final torque. Plus it most likely will be something your regular dialbore guage won't be sensitive enough to detect the out of round condition, the guage on a rod machine has a sweep of .010 in. total instead of .050 or .100 in.

Mike Bruns JBRacing.com

Thanks Mike! I had no idea the APRs wanted to be streached/cycled before final intallation

but that's good to know. Glad you're on my team

I'll take the old bolts out and replace them with the new APRs

My gauge is sensitive to 0.0004"

RC

CaptainCalf · 03-23-2011, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350HP930

+1 on leaving the ARP hardware in the rods. They can handle the stress cycles and will create the clamping force the rods were resized for.

Thanks Tony, I'm counting on you guys to keep me straight!

I'm take'n it real slow so I don't mess up

RC