Low cost engine stand?

[Jim Sims]

Depends how you define safely and cleanly.

Engine Yoke

[911pcars]

"Can someone tell me how you can hold the left case half and insert the crank with rods hanging without the Porsche engine yoke and do it safely and cleanly?"

Who says you have to preinstall the rods on the crank? Why not install the crank in the crankcase first? This procedure allows you to check if the crank binds when tightening the through bolts - can't do that with the rods installed. Hanging engine not required. Install the rods next.

Sherwood

[jim72911t]

I say buy the stand (our host seems to have the best prices, too). I've done it both ways. The first time, for the top end rebuild, I cheaped out and made some adapters so my "Pep Boys" stand would hold the engine. I used four studs to hold the engine, and never felt safe (me or the engine). Take into consideration that I have access to a full machine shop and spent probably 8-10 hours making the appropriate pieces. Bill that out at $80-100 per hour and you'll see where I'm going.

This time, for the full rebuild, I bought the stand, and am very impressed.

Think of the purchase of the engine stand as the first step to a proper rebuild. Bedsides, a used one costs almost the same as a new one, so you'd most likely recoup your investment.

Good luck with the rebuild,
Jim

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by 911pcars
"Can someone tell me how you can hold the left case half and insert the crank with rods hanging without the Porsche engine yoke and do it safely and cleanly?"

Who says you have to preinstall the rods on the crank? Why not install the crank in the crankcase first? This procedure allows you to check if the crank binds when tightening the through bolts - can't do that with the rods installed. Hanging engine not required. Install the rods next.

Sherwood

Hi Sherwood,
I've heard of people saying that you should "pull a rod and check the bearing" (without opening the case) but it just seemed like there wouldn't be any room to get to the rod cap. What's the "trick"?
thanks,
Chris

[911pcars]

Chris,
Without the cylinder, you should have enough room to remove/install the con rod caps. However, this is easier done during the build process. On a repair, quite a bit of the engine parts must be removed - you're down to the short block at this point.

Sherwood

[Wayne 962]

Wow, this thread has gone from bad to rediculous. The 911 engine is not an easy engine to rebuild. If you can't even use the proper tool (those who use it, know from experience that it is worth every penny) then you're getting off on the wrong foot to start.

Using a universal stand can permanently damage your case. What most people don't realize is that the Porsche-specific tool supports the case using the lip of the stand - not the bolts. So, it provides support over 180 degrees of the case lip - not just at two localized points that a universal stand would support it.

Sherwood, with all due respect, I can't imagine how you can adequately assemble an engine without using an engine stand. When it's time to bolt the case together, and you're spinning that engine back and forth in order to get it all done before the sealant cures? When you're installing the sump plate and the exhaust?

In my opinion, you should use the factory tool and nothing else. I doubt that Jerry Woods or anyone else builds engines using a turntable or a universal stand...

-Wayne

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by 911pcars
Chris,
Without the cylinder, you should have enough room to remove/install the con rod caps. However, this is easier done during the build process. On a repair, quite a bit of the engine parts must be removed - you're down to the short block at this point.

Sherwood

I'll have to look closer next time I have a motor apart. It would be nice not to have to split the case to change rod bolts. From memory, I don't recall being able to see the rod cap from the opposite side. Is it all done from the same side the rod sticks out?
-Chris

[TimT]

This is very silly.

Yes it is.

I have built a number of engines using the 4 arm engine stand.
In order to support the case half while installing the crank, I have a precision measured piece of 2X4 that I use to support the case, after I have the case halves bolted up, I install the other 2 arms, and remove the precision 2X4. I can the rotate the case and wheel the whole engine wherever I please!!!


Its called imagineering....the money I saved from
not buying the factory yoke was used for more important things like hoosiers, beer, or some other parts.

[911pcars]

" I can't imagine how you can adequately assemble an engine without using an engine stand. When it's time to bolt the case together, and you're spinning that engine back and forth in order to get it all done before the sealant cures? When you're installing the sump plate and the exhaust?"

Wayne,
Since you asked, I adequately assembled the engine using this method and it seems to work fine. The engine is not that wide. There was no problem inserting the through bolts, o-rings nuts and washers since they're sitting in order below each cylinder spigot on my turntable. Where are they when the engine is hanging? - probably on a work bench next to the engine stand. That's okay too. Is there a shelf below the engine to catch parts that accidently drop? A no-no is placing tools and fasteners on the engine when working on it - especially with so many open orifices for parts to drop through. I know where you can find some nice engine pics using BB's for ballest. How far do parts bounce when they drop from the work area?

I install the sump plate by positioning the engine on the flywheel end. No biggie. The engine isn't that heavy. As was mentioned previously, I install the exhaust system after the engine/trans is installed in the car. As I said before, my setup makes better use of space that is already at a premium. To clarify, I'm not advocating not using an engine stand if space is available. I'm also not advocating jury-rigging a yoke on the engine if it's unsafe or will cause damage to the case.

However, with the engine on a stand, how do you install the flywheel, clutch disk and pressure plate? How do you get the complete engine off the stand safely? Engine hoist or a couple of strong helpers?

Either method of supporting the engine during a rebuilt has it's pluses and minuses. I think this is an example of "more than one way to skin a cat" than a case of correct versus incorrect method. Shouldn't this forum be more concerned with rebuilding than supporting the engine?

Sherwood

[john_colasante]

Originally posted by 911pcars
However, with the engine on a stand, how do you install the flywheel, clutch disk and pressure plate?

Just so you know, the Porsche factory stand allows room for all these parts to bolt on and turn, and there is a place for the flywheel lock too.

[boyt911sc]

Wayne,
I totally disagree with your recommendation. While others have methods completely different from your conventional way means nothing. Have you heard about engineering and creativity?

One example was your recommended way of dropping a 911 using a floor jack. Althought it is the most commonly used method by many. this is unstable and awkward with to performed. I have regularly removed and installed 911 motor/trans at home alone without using a floor jack. That's engineering/creativity with safety as the main goal. And I don't have a hydraulic lift.

There many ways to things right and safe.

[Jim Sims]

Real surfaces (elastic and non-perfect flatness or imperfect contour) stop increasing contact area once the load is transferred. Simply supported beams have no moments at the supports. An eight-inch square four-bolt array has a large moment capability. Enough, time to let this thread die. Cheers, Jim

[RoninLB]

whatever floats your boat... and never had a problem doing anything..
and like Tim explained.. "It's called imagineering", LOL

[RoninLB]

so to get the rebuild down from my 2nd floor library without touching the cylinders/more "imagineering".. no need to document that everything turned out neuroticall perfect on this BB
....LOL

[john_colasante]

I am thankful this thread lasted as long as it did for Ron to break out those photos. Let's hail the new hero!

[pwd72s]

Ron is one of the best "problem solvers" I've ever met...he earns his compliments,that's for sure.

[limble]

Hey!
Will someone with the "factory" engine yoke go out and measure the diameter of the tube on the yoke that fits into the stock engine stand. I want to know if I need to modify the stock stand.
Wayne, that might be good info to post on the parts page where you pitch the engine yoke.

[WERK I]

Here ya' go;
This is the yolk I purchased from Pelican mounted on an engine stand purchased from Pep Boys. They had both a 600lb and 1000lb capacity stands. This is a 1000lb. I wanted a good margin of safety using the 1K since it will be holding a 3.3l turbo engine plus all the peripherals. The yolk fits in the stand with no interference, though it should be shimmed a little to take out the slop. Might try the milk bottle material mentioned earlier...

The shaft OD size is approx. 2.354"

Dave

[WERK I]

Here's the pic

[88911coupe]

This may be a dumb question but once you have the yoke (whichever one you decide to use) how do you get the assembly up and attached to the stand? I assume you will need a few friends to lift it...correct?